9/11, reason, and unreason

[mellowtigger]

Would you believe that the most reasonable summary I found of the 9/11 and Koran-burning hoopla in America came from an Arabic news source?  My own thoughts are "all over the map" and hard to pin down to a single opinion.

BBC is reporting that there will be no Koran burning from the pastor who stirred controversy in the last week or two.  It

Comments

[mellowtigger]

Yes, it's hard to tease out the relevant issues as distinct items. Even in this long piece, I jumped from a specific example of provocation (Koran burning in Florida) to a different topic of violence education (those who teach others to value violent opposition) without explaining my shift. It think there are many interrelated issues at play.

[mellowtigger]

I keep spotting misused words and typos. I'll stop editing finally. :)

Another issue that seems related to the provocation and education example:

Suppose a woman "dresses provocatively" and is later raped by a man. Who deserves culpability, how much, and why? This scenario also brings out questions of reasonable expectations about other people's self-restraint. In this case, however, I'm solidly behind the idea of demanding self-restraint. No other "line" of shared culpability should be entertained. My solution, however, is the diametric opposite of the solution chosen by Muslim societies.

[pangolin]

Since reality is not simple, no adequate solution to it will be.

However, much as exercise is all around good for health, education is all around good for the mind and culture. Easily stated, but not simple by a long shot.

[fingertrouble]

Unless it's direct incitement - ie. you should kill that specific person, I don't think the expression should be limited. It should be countered, derided, made fun of...but the problem with limiting all speech that could cause someone to do something crazy is where do you stop?

We are adults, and if you as your mother might have said 'go jump of a cliff cos your friends tell you' then you probably deserve all you get. Big difference between messages, art, statements saying 'cops are corrupt, kill the pigs' and actually carrying out that act.

I don't think songs or people really can 'control' people like that, not on that scale. If it's the whole government propaganda machine and reinforced by everyone, maybe, like with war...but even now that doesn't work with the internet and foreign media access etc.

[fingertrouble]

I mean blaming the messenger is the wrong way round, usually people have the thought and reinforce it with books, art and music that reinforces their worldview. The desire and mental instability or hatred comes first, the art later.

In cultures that do not have said things bad things still happen - murder, rape etc. I think if it was cause and effect we'd have a lot more murders and rapes - be generally we don't.

The only part of this that could have some basis is kids - dunno how this stuff effects their growing up. I still think it's unlikely to cause harm, children love to be scared but watching a horror movie or something young does not lead to the same trauma as those kids with traumatic pasts or involved in wars etc. Even then most of those kids grow up to be 'normal' and law-abiding, despite horror of their past.