let's not dance this dance

[meiface]

I am in a bad mood today (being a Liverpool fan = despair, but even if we're relegated I'd rather be a Red than anything else ♥), so here are a few things I might've let pass without comment before but am going to bring up now. (Please don't think my concern is any less sincere just because I also happen to be in a bad mood

Comments

[reddwarfer]

I do have a question (I'm not debating the validity of your opinion on the matter), but what sort of expression do you find that expresses the same thing as "that's so lame/retarded/insane" but isn't offensive?

Even if the current language is problematic (and I understand the standpoint, esp in regards to retarded), it's hard to change if you don't have something to change it to...

[meiface]

I think the first article I linked to addresses that a little bit - often when people say "that's so lame" they really mean "that's so uncool" or "that's really stupid" or "that kind of behavior is some kind of substandard" (which is why it's problematic because it's equating lame with a lower value). Similarly, "that's retarded" could easily be substituted for "that was a really dumb move" or "wow that guy is a total asshole" (depending on the context of each situation, of course) - there are a lot of ways to say what we mean without taking the ableist language shortcut. If we see something unbelievable, maybe we should say, "Holy crap, that's totally unbelievable" instead of "Holy crap, that's insane!"

It's definitely hard to check these things because they have gotten so ingrained into modern language, but I guess I also don't think it hurts us to try? Especially if we know that it is harmful and hurtful to other people.

eta: edited for missing words. go me!

[reddwarfer]

But one can argue that dumb is also albeist language, as it means the inability to speak. (I realise that it's offensive in that context, too, but that's originally how it was used)

And as for insane, it depends on context for me. Sometimes the thing you're remarking on is something outside the realm of what you consider "sane" like...I may say, it's insane, but I started talking to my dad again. (Insane because my dad continually hurts me, but I keep forgiving him)

[meiface]

This is true! I think it's another point of debate for a lot of people (inclding people with disabilities). I don't claim to be an expert on these issues, as I've only grown more aware of ableism and its associated problems recently. So I may not have any definitive answers for you, but there's a lot of great resources on the internet if you just search "ableist language" that might answer some questions you may have.

I guess I would say the thing about "insane" is that it implies that sanity is superior to insanity which, well, seems logical at first, until you start questioning how people/society defines "insane". Does it mean anyone with a mental illness or disability is no longer sane? Because then we're saying people without mental disabilities are inherently superior to people with mental disabilities, which is what ableism is. That only "sane" people are truly "whole" and live a fulfilling worthwhile life, etc etc.

[jibrailis]

Yes to all of this. I will come back later with more coherent thoughts, but for now, just yes, always yes.

[meiface]

More thoughts would be welcome! ♥

[intomorning]

Huh, I think it's interesting that you mentioned the sort of hand-waving people do w/ extraction. I think when I read fic, I do that, too - I think, "Oh, they're on a job," and then I continue w/ the story. Mindcrime is a violation of privacy/etc., but... I'm not sure I'd say extraction is akin to having sex w/ someone when the person is unconscious? (I'm sorry for being like, "I'm not getting it." ):) W/ inception, you're forcing an idea on someone and they can't fight against it bc, you know, he/she thinks it's his/her OWN idea, so he/she doesn't really have a choice in it. But extraction is more like a robbery or con. I.e., you're stealing an idea/information. Er, that doesn't make it "less bad," but it's not so much forcing someone to do something...? OH WAIT, extraction is forcing someone up to give up information (and you're setting up the environment so that the person isn't aware of it/can't really resist), so that was a moot point. Huh, yeah, I've never really thought about the repercussions of extraction as much as the

[meiface]

I'm back! Like I was just telling Tori, I'm not trying to differentiate between extraction or inception (only commenting on the disparate treatment they've received by the movie and by fandom in terms of attention to their consequences): both extraction and inception are incidents of someone invading your mind without your consent. Which is parallel to someone invading your body without your consent.

So it's not about whether they're there to put x object or y body part into your body, or about what part of your body they're touching or invading without consent - the point is that all of that is rape. So all forms of invading your mind (in this world where that kind of thing is possible) would be rape, whether they're there to steal an idea or to plant one.

I hope that makes sense?

[herocountry]

actually now that i think about it, i'm not sure how i feel about the straight-out 'extraction is rape'? only because i know a lot of people have issues with things being equated/compared to rape, but i'm unsure here. i can't really speak from a position of any validity (is this the word?)...

but ia on everything else, you are super articulate :D

[meiface]

It's not the distinction between extraction or inception - it's the fact that in either, someone is invading your mind without your consent. It is as much rape as invading your body without your consent. So I'm not trying to compare a bad thing to rape and by that trivialize what rape is, I'm saying, in both instances, this is what the definition of rape (assuming a world where mindcrimes could exist) would encompass.

[herocountry]

yes! okay, i couldn't figure out the base line here, but now i get itt

[meiface]

:D

But I also do agree that people shouldn't compare random bad things to rape just to make it sound, idk, more horrendous. Because, well, rape = rape. That's about it.

[2naonh3_cl2]

You know my thoughts on this. So. Hi. :D

Though, I will admit to occasionally using "retarded," which I'm sure that you've heard me use before. I think I actually used it when I talked to you earlier. :/ It actually bothers me a lot that I will let it slip into conversation, particularly since I do work with the mentally disabled. :( As stated earlier, I need to work on being a better me.

<3 Go you. :3

[meiface]

I used to throw that word around all the time. :( I was reading entries from just a year or so ago on my journal and cringed awfully at some of the dismissive attitudes I had back then. Though it gives me hope about changing for the better! We're all works in progresses.

Thanks for listening to me rant/letting me babble at you (and I enjoy the same from you haha). ♥