I apparently no longer have a Chuck icon.

[meganbmoore]

Dear listies:

What are your thoughts on White Collar? I tend to like detective series and spy shows, as long as they don't end up procedurals (The Inside and Bones are the only real exceptions, and The Inside is almost more of a character piece, and Bones always reminds me more of an old bickering detectives drama and the fake forensics involve

Comments

[mscongeniality]

I tried one episode, but bounced off of it. I know several other people on my flist are very into it, though.

[prozacpark]

The only people I know who like this show are people I associate with slash. I have also always gotten the impression that it's a bit like "Damages" but with men and more crime, less law.

[lyssie]

Yeah, the only people I know who watch it are slashers.

[etrangere]

I love that show but it's not great from a female character basis. There's one fridging, it doesn't pass the Bechdel Test, though no pattern of female victimisation in the various cases that I can remember. The two main characters are male, and of the female secondary character you've got Elizabeth, who is awesome but who is The Wife, and the character Natalie Morales played who was boring and never did anything, at least until S2 where Diana came back and was awesome though still very much a secondary character.

[sartorias]

I enjoyed it so much I've watched the first season twice. The banter is quick and witty, there are only a couple of awkward heavy "male bonding" scenes in the entire season. I love the FBI guy's wife (even if she reminds me totally of Chuck's sister in looks, perkiness, and career orientation while somehow being domestic).

Haven't seen any of the second season.

[meganbmoore]

even if she reminds me totally of Chuck's sister in looks, perkiness, and career orientation while somehow being domestic

Ellie is possibly my favorite character in Chuck, even if I'm not thrilled with how they sometimes treat her (like keeping her in the dark while so many others learned the truth...that was my biggest problem with season 3, really) so that may be a bonus for me.

[sartorias]

There was a potentially awesome lesbian character who vanished without a word, to appear again at the very end. I hope she shows up more in season two.

But otherwise . . . I find it fun and relaxing but not stupid.

[nutmeg3]

I really like the show a lot. It's just frothy and fun, with quick, clever writing and no pretense at being deep. One of the things I like best about is that Peter and El have a good marriage, and I also like the fact that from the first, Peter and Neal have actually had a good relationship, too, not the predictable dynamic of Peter forcing Neal to do his bidding.

Is it a feminist show? No, the main characters are men, and I don't see that ever changing. The thing is, I can enjoy that just as much as I can enjoy a show built equally "lopsidedly" around women, or a show with a more balanced cast in terms of gender and focus, so you need to factor that into my opinion. Everybody's got different buttons, and I can definitely see how the show would bug someone whose buttons differ from mine.

Oh, and I'm not a slasher, so fwiw, that has nothing to do with my enjoyment. In fact, given Peter's strong marriage, the slash just looks forced to me.

[meganbmoore]

Well, if I only watched things that passed my Feminist Sensibilities Test (if I had one, that is) I'd be watching way, way less.

I...get the feeling that this is one of those fandoms where half is "slash slash slash just because there are attractive white men," and the ones who may slash, but aren't in it for that, and also prefer women to be in their fiction, even if not always the focus. Slash/not slash here seems a lot like Mad Men, where I don't know anyone who slashes (or at least identifies it as part of their enjoyment) but others report it as a "slash fandom."

[nutmeg3]

The thing that always strikes me about slash that seems - as it does here - unsupported by canon is that it seems kind of insulting to men, in that it implies two men can't have a close friendship that isn't really a cover for sexual attraction. I mean, we (ie: viewers, readers) accept close female relationships without a sexual component, and as a society we (well, lots of people) are invested in teaching boys to accept and express feelings (and convince husbands to share the chores and emotional responsibility of raising kids and cleaning the house, etc.), but then if guys on TV/in film take the logical step of "evolving," there's this push to insist the only reason is because they're sexually attracted

[janicu]

I feel the same way as the person above.

And I liked that they brought back Marsha Thomason's character for season 2, but I was a bit weirded out that Natalie Morales' character just disappeared. I didn't know they just fired her without really telling her anything. Very crappy.