Error Correction Vs. Pleasant Social Spaces

[matt_arnold]

The different social rules that apply to different settings have occupied my thoughts for the past several days. It has been noticed that I tend to be much more gentle and conciliatory face-to-face than in the written word. One has gone to far as to describe my words as "socially feral." That would only be true if I had spoken the words while

Comments

[sarahmichigan]

It was intended as a compliment. :)

[tlatoani]

many in fandom think the entire world should be in cocktail-party courtesy at all times.

I don't think that's what the article says. I think it's saying that many fans believe the entire world should accept any rude behaviors from other people, practically without limit, without reprimanding them or retaliating in any way. That is not an expectation of cocktail-party courtesy, because cocktail-party courtesy is a two-sided expectation of politeness.

I also think the article exaggerates to make a point, but the point is valid; fandom as a whole is very hesitant to criticize its members for feral behavior, and that's a bad thing because it doesn't help them learn to behave reasonably.

[tlatoani]

(And I don't class your behavior as feral, by the way.)

[marahsk]

I happen to think that "supporting your friends" includes trying to stop them from marching off a cliff, rather than defending their right to do so.

But I do prefer "I don't think that idea will work because..." to "That's a stupid idea!".

[marahsk]

I have also been wondering lately where accquaintanceship ends and friendship begins. The plain fact is that for many very wonderful activity partners, the less that they learn about each other's religious or political preferences the better it is for their relationship. Perhaps a friend is someone who we can be ourselves around, and those who we can't be fully ourselves around are not bad, and do not have to change. Much to the chagrin of those who think the whole world can join hands and walk down the yellow brick road in harmony, this may be an inevitable phenomenon that we should accept.

[drkelso]

Sometimes its fun to get into an argument over religious or political topics and leave it at that. I have no illusions that my arguments are going to change someone's mind when we are at opposite ends of the spectrum. But sometimes its a fun challenge and in those cases, it should be no-holds-barred. If everyone understands the context and that it isn't personal, it can be a great learning experience.

Most other times, I don't feel like getting into it with someone and just want to goof off and have fun with no thought of the differences I have with the people I am around. In those cases I don't want to discuss the "hard topics."

I think friendship starts when two people can have it out with each other but be mature enough to let it go when it is finished and be able to enjoy each other's company in a casual context.

[marahsk]

It's hard to say; it's like wondering when infatuation becomes love. I don't even know that there is a firm line between them. I think accquaintanceship merges into friendship as you get to know and like each other. Obviously some people move farther along and become closer friends than others

[natashasikorsky]

I have on occasion pooped on self-congratulatory behavior within fandom because I believe it is of benefit to people to occasionally meet people who don't worship them. I'm kinda going to do that right now. I think fandom is insular. I think fans tend to surround themselves with people who will compliment them. I think this limits the success of many in fandom.

You, Matt, do not have the perfect measure of correctness and truth within your brain. I say that not with any particular flaw in mind, though I now dare suggest you have a few. I saw that simply knowing that no human is perfect.

[avt_tor]

This is fairly interesting as a convention report, but it does raise the question: what actually happened at ConClave that had you post this?

I always say that I only debate with people that I respect. :)

I do, however, tolerate a lot of eccentric behavior from fannish acquaintances, and I consider this a good thing. It's a very fine line between wierdness and creativity and I would not want to lose the latter.

[matt_arnold]

I was thinking of events on my Livejournal, which is an extension of fandom. It's the 21st-century fanzine. Nothing happened at ConClave that caused me to post this; if anything, the convention made me realize how seldom I see debates about religion and politics happen there, compared to on the internet. Panel discussions about it at previous conventions, including those with me as a panelist, were uniformly characterized by restraint and moderation.

[natashasikorsky]

Outside of guest panels where the conservative or judeo-christian viewpoint is imported, you won't find much political or religious debate in Michigan fandom because the conservative and judeo-christian viewpoint is very much under-represented

[matt_arnold]

I'm not sure how you are using the word "conservative." Opposition to sex and drugs and alternative lifestyles? Or tax breaks for the rich?

I understand how you feel unwelcome in a room full of people all in agreement that Christians are gullible. You probably should avoid those environments. At the same time, your Bible contains countless insults to good people, so I feel uncomfortable around people rude enough to believe the Bible. That's why I generally avoid them.

Which one of us is a minority, and in what context? Which one is beat up and abused by the other? Do you not see the perfect equivalence in your demand that I change my own viewpoint?