Murder Your Darlings Some More

[mariagoner]

I've a question to any and every writer out there.

What's the absolute worst thing you've ever done in a piece of fiction (original or fanfic) to a character that you've genuinely liked?

Comments

[kilraaj]

I used to think I was sadistic towards my characters, but looking at this, I'm really not sure. I've had a minor character that I like be raped. I've had a major character I really admire be put in a situation where she consents (only reluctantly) to sex with someone she has extremely mixed feelings towards--he's normally a good friend of hers, but when he changes forms his behavior--and mind--changes drastically and he resembles her worst enemy.

I turned one female character into a doll. (Shadow Hearts has an obsession with doll houses. Having a character experience the horror of feeling themselves turn into a doll just seemed natural.) Trapped the hero of the story into a purgatory-like state of existence--but he'll be happy most of eternity, so it doesn't count, does it? Even though it upset the readers? :) In a different fic, had same character lose control of himself AND be thrown into prison in a foreign land. Oh, and in a free form poem I had him commit suicide by throwing himself in front of a train after he sees the

[intradependency]

- chills.

Just replaying Shadow Hearts, I see what you mean about the dollhouses....any chance I can beg for a link to the story?

[kilraaj]

Erm...well, the story is posted here, but I should mention that it's a few years old and was never really finished--people were posting bits and pieces of their fiction in a forum and I joined in, then left (we got a horrible mod), and then iced_puffy asked if she could put what I'd written on her Yuri/Alice shrine and I agreed.

I really do like the dollhouses in the games...I especially liked the dollhouse in Alice's sidequest.

thanks!

[intradependency]

It's pretty good for a few years ago. Totally didn't expect Margarete...

[byzantienne]

... oh, I have tendencies to be AWFUL to my characters. But then, I write -- hm. I can't call it darkfic, because I don't write it for the sake of doing horrible things to the characters. I write about people in difficult situations, which are often depressing or dark or horrible, because those are the stories which are, for me, the truest depictions of how complicated the world is.

Also, dark usually (for me!) helps me find plot. Because one follows Elizabeth Bear's Plot Rule: 'Take one thing your character needs. Make it worse. Now do it again. This is called escalation.' And it works!

But the worst thing I've ever done to a character is to an OC of mine. He's a priest and theologian and total libertine rake. First, I made him a prophet of God, via direct revelation. Then, I made the prophecy uncontrollable, addictive, and slowly cause physical and mental deterioration. Then I let him fall in love with the Archprelate (kind of like the Pope...)

Er, yes. You hurt the ones you love?

[mariagoner]

Hmm... I have to admit, I don't necessarily see dark!fic as the best depiction of how the world works. It can be, definitely. But I think I'm a sap for seeing people I like happy so I try to balance the good and the bad in their lives out, even when they're in miserable situations. And when I don't try and do that... that's when I really see something as dark!fic. Which is why, say, Imprint would qualify while Knots wouldn't.

I guess I always believe that happiness, too, is inevitable. Perhaps I'm just the optimistic sort? ;)

Also, dark usually (for me!) helps me find plot. Because one follows Elizabeth Bear's Plot Rule: 'Take one thing your character needs. Make it worse. Now do it again. This is called escalation.' And it works!

Excellent advice! I'm going to have to keep this in mind for the future, oh yes.

Er, yes. You hurt the ones you love?

As a writer, that's my motto! XD

[byzantienne]

Maybe I'm representing it wrong. It's not that dark!fic is the best depiction of how the world works -- there's absolutely room, in my universes or personal fanfic canons, for good things to happen, and for people to be happy. I just also think that one of the basic axioms of good fiction -- the kind of fiction I really love to read, and the kind I aspire to be able to write -- is that no one is 'good' and no one is 'evil'. Everyone believes themselves justified in one way or another. 'Right' depends on what side you're on. And when I try to write a universe where I'm concentrating on portraying all those shades of grey, it tends, more often than not, to be darkfic.

I guess I always believe that happiness, too, is inevitable. Perhaps I'm just the optimistic sort? ;)

Actually, I'd totally describe myself as an optimist, too. *laughs* Just with a weird definition of 'good'.

[mariagoner]

Mmmm, I feel like I totally understand and agree with you here. I don't like all things being happiness and light myself, though I definitely do enjoying reading and writing sheer fluff and sweetness sometimes. But if you don't have the dark spots to contrast the light moments with, would happiness mean anything at all? So definitely, there really does have to be a certain balance kept.

[intradependency]

Maybe how I described Basch in Regrets? Although I don't know what was worse there, Basch's total filth-encrustation or Noah's wallowing in self-pity. Maybe that wasn't really...sadistic

[mariagoner]

Scarily enough, I don't think that's even particularly sadistic by the standards of this fandom. So much worse has been done to both of the fon Ronsenburgs, oh my yes.

Eerily, considering this makes me want to write wanton sadism from another perspective: what could a 'writer' truly do to be considered sadistic? Refuse to let all of the strengths of the character grow? Render them totally impotent, destroy their potential? (Write them so poorly, or self-indulgently, that the character is completely boring? - Just quietly, this is what galls me about Vincent from VII...)

This is a brilliant insight, actually. I just love this completely. Because really, what's the worse thing you can do to a character besides neglect them completely or write them so poorly you turn your readers off on them? The opposite of love isn't hate, after all-- just indifference.

On the subject of sadism via destroying a character's hope/dreams: it's almost a 'story that could be', something that would be logical only through analysis and an understanding of

[amaiko]

Kabuto beating the shit out of Hinata and then cutting into her eye with a scalpel and without benefit of anesthesia in the next chapter of Muma, plus all the other assorted mindfuckery he puts her through. There's another scene tied to that a bit later on when Hinata finally wakes and just lays there obsessively touching the eye he cut, not sure if the unbroken skin she's feeling is real or a genjutsu that makes my heart bleed for her, but it has to be written--it happened, there's no other way to put it.

On the whole though, I tend to torture my original characters and fan-borrowed ones more on the mental side than the physical--most of them just have issues out the ass due to past tragedies or other ill fortune.

[mariagoner]

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...I really can't wait to see that Muma, even though I'm wincing at the thought of it, especially since you're a writer who does thick, real description so well. Can't. Contain. My. Anticipation. At. All!

And yes, I'm with you on having the pain I inflict be more mental than physical. Not only can I write it better, it feels more real to me. I've never had much physical damage done to me, after all. But emotional? Oh, that I think we've all experienced a lot of!

[amaiko]

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...I really can't wait to see that Muma, even though I'm wincing at the thought of it, especially since you're a writer who does thick, real description so well. Can't. Contain. My. Anticipation. At. All!

I'm wincing while writing it. Why do you think the next chapter is taking me so long? ;-; Full of violence and suffering it is and I don't like hurting sweet Hinata. ;-;

And if it makes you feel any better, the beating came about because Hinata refused to come back quietly and insisted on fighting Kabuto (despite having no chakra and being in a seriously weakened condition, etc.) when he caught up to her during her escape.

(paraphrased)

Kabuto: *sigh* Please stop being ridiculous and come along quietly--

Hinata: You're the one who's being ridiculous if you think I'm just going to let you take me back! (<--- strong words from Hinata here...)

Kabuto:....on your head be it.

[mariagoner]

Sometimes, it takes time to muster up the courage to hurt your darlings, however fictional they might be. ::sigh::

And Hinata! And Kabuto! Oh jesus, that bastard-- I haven't even read it and I kind of want to rip his head from his spine for hurting Hinata that way. I'm going to need to pluck up my courage more than a little to read that chapter, I just know it.