Lee is the feminine, Kara is the masculine, if anything
I wrote a paper on BSG for my "Heroines and the Heroic Tradition" class last year, and in one section where I was talking about mythic/folkloric roles I argued that Kara is the questing hero trying to win the king's favor and Lee's the virgin princess. I sort of loved writing that paper.
And now that I've been that person who picks up a minor, tangential point and contributes nothing...:)
I agree on all the major points here- women have as much of a 'right to violence' as the men on this show, with all the positives and negatives that brings along.
I want to read that paper! Seriously, if you like it and want to share it, I'd love to read it. :) I don't know if I mentioned that I'm teaching a class on gender on television and we're going to be spending a good chunk of time on BSG.
southernbangel and I have been saying all summer that the reason Kara and Lee had the falling out was because they had sex and Lee wanted to cuddle afterward and Kara wouldn't let him. . . and, wow, not far off *g*
In another aside-- was that Racetrack that Kat was fighting? I couldn't tell for sure.
No. Twice in a row was all I could take. I'll download it when it comes out on iTunes and watch it to my heart's content. Or at least until I can get over the embarrassing and uncharacteristic crying. *G*
I just started watching this series recently and caught most of last night's episode. I wanted to say that I agree with you - I didn't see anything wrong with Kara and Lee going at each other in the ring. I'm not good at articulating it but there are some obvious differences between or traditional society rules and what goes on a fictional ship populated by a fictional people. They have their own rules and traditions and beliefs - similar to ours but not the same. They bunk together, they fight and drink and train together. Why wouldn't they whale on each other? Why does there need to be a difference bewteen Tyroll and Bill and Kara and Lee?
I appreciated the fight, because to me it was a physical way of working through some issues/emotions for both of them, and in the end, Lee was just as bloodied as Kara. I adore the equality in this series, how Kara can be a kick ass, fucked up fighter pilot and no one has an issue with her being female.
Yeah, like you said-- it's hard to articulate but to impose our societal rules on Galactica doesn't seem right to me. Of course those are the rules that the viewers are going to have at their disposal to contextualize what happens on-screen, but it's really not an accurate framework.
Not that I don't understand where people who have violence histories can't watch this-- I get it. But for me, personally, I had to figure out why it didn't bother me on the level of gender and it was because BSG has done such a good job erasing a lot of gender lines onboard Galactica.
I've never disliked Dee, even though she hasn't made much of an impression on me in any real way. Until this ep, when her face just spoke volumes. It was pretty amazing acting. I listened to the podcast and apparently they had written and shot several Dee speeches about how she was feeling, and then cut them for being superfluous. And I agree, because Dee didn't need more than two lines to Anders to completely convey how she was feeling.
Here via friends' friends and just wanted to say I agree with you. It never even occurred to me to read some sort of gender battle into it, as Kara has never been portrayed as anything other than an equal in all matters, including fighting. I mean, in the first half-hour of the entire series she's slugging a superior officer. Slugging, not slapping. When Lee punches her, he's a soldier punching another soldier, not a man punching a woman. No one was like, "Ohnoes, he punched a woman!" They were just like, "Damn, that must have hurt." I think it's to the show's credit, personally. Either Starbuck is an equal, or she isn't. To imply that it would be okay for her to hit Lee, but not the other way around, implies that she is weaker and needs to be protected, which seems completely inconsistent with the character as she is presented.
Anyway. Hope you don't mind my butting in with my two cents. :) Nice post.
Anyway. Hope you don't mind my butting in with my two cents. :) Nice post.
Not at all-- I'm so glad you commented.
When Lee punches her, he's a soldier punching another soldier, not a man punching a woman. No one was like, "Ohnoes, he punched a woman!" They were just like, "Damn, that must have hurt." I think it's to the show's credit, personally. Either Starbuck is an equal, or she isn't.
I completely agree. The violence is. . . generic, I guess. I think to bring gender into it is to not appreciate the differences in gender dynamics between our culture and the Galactica culture. And I *love* that gender dynamics are often (not always, but often) absent on Galactica.
I basically agree with you. BSG does fall into a few gender stereotypes, such as male=thinker and woman=empath, and obviously in the realm of procreation. Overall, though, the genders are fairly equal in the sense of women being able to do anything a man can do -- and the advantage it has over other shows is that this is taken as a fact without a second thought. With BTVS and Alias, for example, Sydney and Buffy could easily overtake a man, but there was always an undercurrent of "Wow, this woman is amazing!"
I didn't even consider the male/female violence aspect of the K/L fight because it didn't ping at ALL as having domestic violence undertones... a subject about which I know almost nothing, so I'll stop there.
BTW, I loved when someone yelled out a warning to "Watch that pretty face!" at the end... because I couldn't tell if they meant Kara or Lee. ;)
I have a whole other post on how the Cylon women are an exception to this-- they are machines, the "other", and wow does the gender crap come out with them BIG TIME.I've
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BSG does fall into a few gender stereotypes, such as male=thinker and woman=empath, and obviously in the realm of procreation.Aw, man, I knew I forgot to say something I wanted to and I thank you for sparking that
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I wrote a paper on BSG for my "Heroines and the Heroic Tradition" class last year, and in one section where I was talking about mythic/folkloric roles I argued that Kara is the questing hero trying to win the king's favor and Lee's the virgin princess. I sort of loved writing that paper.
And now that I've been that person who picks up a minor, tangential point and contributes nothing...:)
I agree on all the major points here- women have as much of a 'right to violence' as the men on this show, with all the positives and negatives that brings along.
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southernbangel and I have been saying all summer that the reason Kara and Lee had the falling out was because they had sex and Lee wanted to cuddle afterward and Kara wouldn't let him. . . and, wow, not far off *g*
In another aside-- was that Racetrack that Kat was fighting? I couldn't tell for sure.
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Have you watched the episode again since last night? I haven't been able to.
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I appreciated the fight, because to me it was a physical way of working through some issues/emotions for both of them, and in the end, Lee was just as bloodied as Kara. I adore the equality in this series, how Kara can be a kick ass, fucked up fighter pilot and no one has an issue with her being female.
Oh, and hi.
We seem to be the only ones who do, in fact.
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Yeah, like you said-- it's hard to articulate but to impose our societal rules on Galactica doesn't seem right to me. Of course those are the rules that the viewers are going to have at their disposal to contextualize what happens on-screen, but it's really not an accurate framework.
Not that I don't understand where people who have violence histories can't watch this-- I get it. But for me, personally, I had to figure out why it didn't bother me on the level of gender and it was because BSG has done such a good job erasing a lot of gender lines onboard Galactica.
Thanks for coming by and commenting.
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Anyway. Hope you don't mind my butting in with my two cents. :) Nice post.
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Not at all-- I'm so glad you commented.
When Lee punches her, he's a soldier punching another soldier, not a man punching a woman. No one was like, "Ohnoes, he punched a woman!" They were just like, "Damn, that must have hurt." I think it's to the show's credit, personally. Either Starbuck is an equal, or she isn't.
I completely agree. The violence is. . . generic, I guess. I think to bring gender into it is to not appreciate the differences in gender dynamics between our culture and the Galactica culture. And I *love* that gender dynamics are often (not always, but often) absent on Galactica.
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I didn't even consider the male/female violence aspect of the K/L fight because it didn't ping at ALL as having domestic violence undertones... a subject about which I know almost nothing, so I'll stop there.
BTW, I loved when someone yelled out a warning to "Watch that pretty face!" at the end... because I couldn't tell if they meant Kara or Lee. ;)
I have a whole other post on how the Cylon women are an exception to this-- they are machines, the "other", and wow does the gender crap come out with them BIG TIME.I've ( ... )
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