I didn't just watch Red Cap, yesterday, I watched some Supernatural, too.

[lyssie]

I don't know, is season two still considered an "OMG SPOILERCUT"? Eh.

I was watching to meet the Harvelles.

Comments

[karate0kat]

HARVELLE LOVE!

I do not understand the complaints about the Harvelle's at all. Well, actually, most of the complaints are against Jo (gee, the potential love interest gets the hate, *shocking*). I guess some people found her annoying and immature. I'm with you, I wanted to see her growth from amateur to competent.

It's interesting that you see the reflection between the Harvelle's and Sam/Dean/their dad. When you get to season 4 and get the full backstory (that the writers pulled out of their asses) for Mary Winchester, she and Jo are so similar it's uncanny. Of course, just don't try to make that comparison to a Jo hater. They will eat your face.

[karate0kat]

I loved knowing she was a badass and seeing her toss Dean around, but I could never quite decide if the fact that 'ole Yellow Eyes was there because of her made it better or worse. On the one hand, at least she was an active participant, on the other, it's all her fault? Really? Meh.

So basically, I loved the first half of the backstory, not so much the second.

[sabaceanbabe]

It's not so much that the women themselves are written poorly, it's that they always, ALWAYS come to a bad end. I love Jo, Ellen, Bela, and several other one-shots. Most of the people saying they're poorly written, in my limited experience ('cause I sooooooooo don't hang out in SPN fandom), has been people who just hate them because they get in the way of their ship or they get in the way of Mary Suing themselves with one of the boys.

[mfirefly10]

THIS. Exactly this. Explained much better than I ever could:)

1. I think many of the female characters were written as compelling, complex characters. Part of the problem was pointed out by sabaceanbabe. The other part is that the writers never gave the female characters any real significance in the mythology of the series. There were always there to be hot and snarky and then disappear so we could get back to the 'important' stuff. *sighs

[timjr]

The answer to 'why did they get dumped' is entirely based on the general revulsion the vocal fanbase had to recurring vaginas on their precious woobie boy show.

No, seriously, I've read where Kripke admits they pulled Jo at least partially due to the fan reaction...

[rodlox]

was Kripke being serious when he said that?

[noybusiness]

I'm afraid so. "We tried something and it didn't work" kind of thing. Aargh.

[meresy]

1. I loved Ellen and Jo. Especially Ellen, because she gave Dean grief all the time (as one should.) And I think the bad feelings were due to both things: fandom being insane and the writers not being sure what to do with them now that they'd written them (of course, that's hardly limited to supporting females. They've fumbled Sam badly, too, IMO

[bluediamond421]

1) Is it that the writers later decide to be lazy, since the fandom hates vaginas? - Yes. This. I will never not believe it was this. For all of them.

4) I wouldn't call them intensely boring, but I have always found them a LOT more interesting when they were not on their own just the two of them. (See also: I loved Ruby)

5) Watching Jo go from amateur to fully-competent hunter would have also been awesome.
Yesssss. This. *long sad sigh*

7) *cough*Sam is every demon's favorite puppet*cough* *goes back to sulking over Ruby's retconny conclusion*

8) Dean/Jo would have easily been the show's most awesome ship, if the show had real ships, and that had been one of them. But yeah, what meresy said, they were protecting themselves from the insane women-hating Wincest fans. I'm telling you....same writers, whooole different premise, that is what we need. (If I ever find that alternate-universe, I'm staying, 'cause I do like SPN, but it could have been sooooo much better.)