Advent - 3rd Sunday - symbols of forgiveness

[lynedd]

Tomorrow Christ is coming, as yesterday he came;
A child is born this moment, we do not know its name.
The world is full of darkness, again there is no room;
The symbols of forgiveness are stable, cross and tomb.

-- Fred Kaan, 1966This carol, written the year of my birth, is my favourite of the carols sung during Advent

Comments

[bitterwind]

You don't feel inclined to forgive them the change?

I suspect this was tongue in cheek, but I'm gonna answer anyway '>

[lynedd]

Changes sometimes come with mistakes. I think this one is a mistake. I'm not going to go crusading for their heads or anything, but it's part of what I consider a worrisome trend, and feel it's my duty to speak to it.

Are their intentions good? Doubtless. Are they above reproach? No one is ">

Re: I suspect this was tongue in cheek, but I'm gonna answer anyway '>

[bitterwind]

There was a tongue-in-cheek element, but there was a serious question in there too. I'm fascinated by the internal consistency of the logic of peoples' faith.

Christianity has such a strong element of forgiveness in its doctrine, yet at the same time I often see a great sensitivity to the perception that things are being done the wrong way. It is an interesting tension that has generated a great diversity of paths.

Re: I suspect this was tongue in cheek, but I'm gonna answer anyway '>

[lynedd]

First off, forgiveness is not a blank slate - the original sin exists. Forgiveness is not forgetfulness - not to say that the forgiven is forever on probation, but there must be repentance as well as apology. It is not enough to say "I was wrong, I'm sorry," there must also be evidence of change. "What can I do/change/remember to prevent me doing wrong in the future" is a huge part of repentance, and necessary for forgiveness.

Certainly I struggle with forgiving those I see as having committed a wrongdoing against me; it's one of the reasons I embrace the concept of "practicing Christian" - it takes a lot of practice, and I don't know anyone who's gotten it right yet. I certainly havn't...

I don't blame the committee that changed the words. I don't see a need to forgive them, because I do not see them as having committed a wrongdoing in their actions. The question isn't about them, really

[spacecasemama]

Do you think that it has an element of "political correctness" to it? That changing of wording/phrasing to soften it, but it softens the meaning sometimes, and it seems to me that a church with a Message, should not be softening or diluting that Message. Yeah, I guess that's what I mean, it makes it seem like watered-down and diluted Faith and Christianity, which don't go together so much.

[lynedd]

Frankly, I wish being a Christian was still risky. The danger of being too main-stream and acceptable, is the danger of becoming too comfortable, if that makes sense.

I want my faith to challange me.

[strixluna]

You might want to be careful what you wish for. The Universe has a tendency to give us that which we are asking for.

[lynedd]

There are parts of this world where being Christian is risky - where wearing a cross will get you killed. I think North American Christians are getting fat and complacent, spiritually, and could use a little excercise in understanding just how radical Christ's message really is.

[strixluna]

Forgiveness is a concept I struggle with. But then, so are apolgies. You don't want to know the number of times Brian has gone and done some boneheaded manuver and when he apologizes for it I say, "I don't want you to apologize, I just want you to never do this again." And, of course, forgiveness and apologizing are tied hand in hand. So yeah, overall I struggle with the concept personally.

I do think it's a laudable ideal to strive for though, even though I'm not a readily forgiving person. I can see the value in having more of it in my life. Granted, I'm also seeing all of this from my admittedly non-Christian perspective so I may be a little off in my observations.

[battleaxe4real]

thank you for turning me on to Madeline L'Engle -- I love her writing so much!!

[lynedd]

*smiling* You are most welcome. Madeline's auto-biographical, philosophical musings have been such a huge influence in my life, I'm always glad to share her with others ">