Comments | lucia_tanaka: In MGS, does the player influence canon? Then what is the real modus operandi of Philanthropy?

lucia_tanaka

In MGS, does the player influence canon? Then what is the real modus operandi of Philanthropy?

Sep 07, 2009 14:09

So TVT has this page on the DarthWiki called Warp That Aesop. People examine their media of choice and find the really bad messages that could be pulled out of the source. Some fail spectacularly (see them trying to make a bad message out of Tengen Toppa Gurren Laggan). Some, like the MGS ones, are pretty interesting ( Read more... )

meta, mgs

Comments 9

athenemiranda September 7 2009, 19:39:06 UTC

To repeat what I said elsewhere: in the first two parts of MGS4 Otacon SAYS REPEATEDLY that there's no need to kill anyone; Snake is hesitant about even volunteering to kill Liquid Ocelot; and they went to the effort of modding the M9 just so they could use non-lethal methods on missions, and this became so associated with Philanthropy/Snake that (if you believe Plisken) 'similar models were made and sold among the fans of his exploits'. HOW ARE THEY MURDERING COUNTLESS PEOPLE NO REALLY WHAT

saphrawn September 7 2009, 20:15:50 UTC

Of course they aren't killing For Fun And Profit, but if you look a the examples below, there does still a lot of killing happen, canonically. I'd say that Snake really attempts to do it non-lethally, but when things heat up, he'll have no qualms about killing; and I think Otacon would prefer dead soldiers over a dead Snake, too.

lucia_tanaka September 7 2009, 22:56:33 UTC

Heh, looks like we've got our own Sliding Scale of Idealism and Cynicism here. :sits in the idealism corner, la:

(The comment has been removed)

saphrawn September 7 2009, 20:05:28 UTC

Also note that it's the same for Big Boss. In and after cutscenes, Big Boss will always have the M1911A1 equipped, even if you previously equipped the Mk 22 (you don't know how often I accidentally killed guards because of that auuugh)

so yes, this does imply that he very much kills them

saphrawn September 7 2009, 19:59:31 UTC

....isnt it kind of a big point of snake's character though that, no matter how much he tries to deny it, he really ENJOYS war and killing?

it may be possible to play the game without any kills (and the player will be rewarded for it), but canonically, kills DO happen, just as fly said. doesn't snake run around with a rifle shooting down all those tengus by the end of MGS2 while Raiden chops them up with his new sword?

lucia_tanaka September 7 2009, 21:22:27 UTC

....isnt it kind of a big point of snake's character though that, no matter how much he tries to deny it, he really ENJOYS war and killing?

Absolutely (hi, I'm kinda in the middle of writing that fic rite nao omg), but he's hardly alone in that in the MGS universe. What separates him is how Gray Fox's death changed his outlook on battle and how he's not in it for the killing. I think that gave him a lot more restraint, but, again, that's strictly how I play him coloring my perceptions.

The end of MGS2 was all just a VRWell, the tengus are directly related to Arsenal and almost certainly Really Bad Guys unlike say the Gurlukovich soldiers who were just hired by Dead Cell and all. So... I think the situation's different. Not that the Gurlukovich soldiers are blameless and shouldn't be killed, but they certainly aren't evil. Just following evil orders.

saphrawn September 8 2009, 03:05:09 UTC

And the tengu's don't follow evil orders? :V Sorry, I just think that "who should be killed and who shouldn't" argumentation falls kinda short XD Kills are kills.

lucia_tanaka September 8 2009, 03:17:36 UTC

And I agree. HI I DON'T KILL ANYONE.

I... eh. I'm incapable of seeing Philanthropy as a deadly force. I cannot play that way. I just find the thought interesting, s'all.

You enjoy the killing, don't you? moonlitsiren September 8 2009, 09:42:33 UTC

Honestly, I think that it's more a hangup of Otacon's than Snake's with his "Oh, I brought you a tranq too! :D :D :D" and insistence that you don't need to kill people in MGS4. But really, it depends on the game for me. MGS4 lends itself to a more run and gun style, while I like being sneaky with tranqs in MGS2 and 3. MGS1 is kind of a toss up and varies by area. But I guess that's not Philanthropy yet, so it's not as important.

I mean, if the goal is to be stealthy, a tranq is gonna be the better option. No blood, no body count (mind you, you're in war zones most of the time in 4, so it doesn't really matter), etc, and the game certainly steers you that way since it rewards you for not killing, but I imagine Snake as a guy who does what he has to do to finish his mission. Kill now, wax philosophical later.