The Importance of Being Angel

[lostboy_lj]

So, I closed my poll.  The result wasn't close and didn't look like it was gonna be, and the topic chosen required a lot of work, so I thought I should get cracking on it right away.  It's coming along fine, but it's gonna take a bit more time to cook -- with myths like this one, I've discovered you have to do a lot of long, boring research and

Comments

[slaymesoftly]

LOL - I appreciate all your research and work putting this together. Not to mention the humor with which it's written. It was great fun, and I look forward to more of the same as you tackle the poll results. :)

[lostboy_lj]

Pssssssh! You think this was a lot of research? Wait'll you see this debunking thing. Holy hell, I'm not sure it will fit into one post!

(But thanks for the compliment! :D)

(Oh and congratz on your retirement. Live it up!)

[slaymesoftly]

LOL - It probably won't, but that's ok. Then we'll have two funny/informative posts to read.

Thanks. I plan to - in between naps....

[eilowyn]

I don't even have to read this (though I will), but I pretty much can just roll my eyes and say that after pretty much season 4 of Buffy any significant interaction between Buffy and Angel is blatant fanservice. What the fuck was he doing at Joyce's graveside when Joyce hated him? Oh yeah. Fanservice. Why was he making out with Buffy five minutes after Spike did the Biggest Declaration of Love and Faith in a Person on both shows? Oh yeah. Fanservice. I'll give you "I Will Remember You" (because it shows once again how Angel doesn't believe Buffy can make decisions for herself) and I'll give you "Sanctuary" (because of it's importance to Faith's story - all thrown punches aside). But after that? The guy's MIA, and all I want to do is plaster this gif all over the show:

[lostboy_lj]

I don't even have to read this (though I will), but I pretty much can just roll my eyes and say that after pretty much season 4 of Buffy any significant interaction between Buffy and Angel is blatant fanservice.

Ha! I do hope you read it someday. As you know, I don't share your Angel-hate (even though I don't have any problem with it at all), but just looking dispassionately at the evidence can't bring me to much different of a conclusion. They just sort of... stuck him in, here and there, with almost zero story relevance.

[boot_the_grime]

Heh. I agree with your views of Angel (except that I still think End of Days/Chosen scenes are forced and stupid and generally crap).

The end of the post is very funny - but, you know, not really accurate. Because the "The end" - "Oh wait. No. Not the end... WTF?!" moment was not the comics - it was AtS season 5. When people say that Buffy as a character and Spuffy as a relationship got the perfect ending on the show and it should have ended there, I ask: Yes, but which show? Unfortunately, season 5 of AtS was the canon ending for Spike and (sort of) Buffy, and Spuffy for years - and that ending sucked eggs in so many ways.

[lostboy_lj]

Heh. I agree with your views of Angel (except that I still think End of Days/Chosen scenes are forced and stupid and generally crap).

I think it would have played infinitely better had Angel and Buffy not appeared on screen together at all whatsoever between "Graduation" and "End of Days." But, yeah, I still thought they kind of made a (forced) reunion work.

Because the "The end" - "Oh wait. No. Not the end... WTF?!" moment was not the comics - it was AtS season 5.

Ah, good ol' "The Girl in Question", which (kinda-sorta) violently murders Bangel and Spuffy at the same time. The funny thing is, I kind of like that episode, as a last gasp of light humor before the show is plunged into ultimate darkness. Of course, the comics managed to retcon that, as well as lots of other things that made it feel very alternate-universy.

[rebcake]

Huh. I don't think I disagree. Damn. What's the fun in that? Wait, let me rummage around. I'm sure I can find something.

Ah, yes! It's this bit:

stalwart "he's always there when you need him" tropeI have problems with Angel, and part of it is that he says he's going to "be there", and he gets credit in fandom for "being there", but he's NOT THERE. Specifically, he says he's going to give up his shot at humanity in order to keep her alive, and then...nothing. He never again helps her in a fight, except when the Watchers Council brings the fight to him and she accidentally gets involved. He had to have known she had a god after her, as she presumably unloaded at Joyce's graveside. But when she's really up against it with Glory, he's off in another dimension. I don't blame him for that (much) but Buffy is not his priority, and all the lip service to the contrary makes me cranky

[lostboy_lj]

Wow, you're going a long way to pick a fight, rebcake! XD

stalwart "he's always there when you need him" trope

I see you conveniently chopped out the "there's a bit of the..." that prefaced that quote. It's really just "a bit," and can't be more since Angel is almost completely absent from the BTVS plot except for "Pangs" and "End of Days."

[rebcake]

I know! It was really hard to find a little sliver there to gnaw on.

I agree that the trope is only waved at (hey there, trope!). I don't understand why viewers buy the promise of "being there" over what is actually on the screen, though. This comes on the heels of a discussion elsewhere where everybody was piling on to say how sweet it was that Angel would "always be there when Buffy needs him most." Um, no he won't.

I really liked your distillation of Buffy's Tragic Flaw:

she longs for deep emotional intimacy, but becomes increasingly convinced it's too risky, and that she isn't capable of it anyway

I still say Hank shot first, though.

[lostboy_lj]

Yeah, I think I know what you mean. I don't think it's quite as horribly overplayed as a lot of shippers seem to think (or underplayed, depending on the object of their ship). His appearances mostly feel like what they are: a handful of brief crossover cameos where they say nice things to each other and maybe handle a bit of exposition. He's not "always there" -- Buffy is in trouble all the time. Sunnydale is a world filled with gods and monsters, killer cyborgs, mad scientists, etc, but Angel only shows up four times. And while Joyce's death could certainly be considered her lowest point emotionally, "Ghost Indians" weren't exactly as much of a threat to Buffy as a Hell God who was trying to use her sister's blood to tear open a hole in the universe. Was Cordy's vision-brain broken when that stuff was going down?

Plus, Angel doesn't really do much of anything on the show after the third season split. As far as I can tell, the only things that Angel does in Sunnydale from the fourth season on are as follows

[boot_the_grime]

Willow Rosenberg, 144 episodes (100%)
Xander Harris, 143 episodes (99%)
Rupert Giles, 121 episodes (84%)
Spike, 96 episodes (66%)
Anya Jenkins, 81 episodes (56%)
Dawn Summers, 66 episodes (46%)
Joyce Summers, 58 episodes (40%)
Angel, 58 episodes (40%)
Daniel "Oz" Osburne, 39 episodes (27%)
Riley Finn, 31 episodes (22%)
Andrew Wells, 28 episodes (19%)
Jonathan Levinson, 28 episodes (19%)
Faith Lehane, 20 episodes (14%)

Wait a moment. A few major characters are missing from that list. Where's Cordelia? Tara?

[lostboy_lj]

It wasn't intended to be a full list or anything. I was just ticking off some names.

But since you asked:

Cordelia Chase, 54 episodes (38%)
Tara Maclay, 47 episodes (32%)

EDIT: Actually, I guess I'll go ahead and add these in, since that would cover almost every Scooby. There are some others I could probably add in for even more context (Wesley, Jenny), but that might be stretching things a bit.

[boot_the_grime]

Well, Cordy and Tara are major characters. Anyway - it's pretty easy to list the number of appearances of characters who weren't in the main cast. IMDB is usually correct about that, except for listing one more appearance for SMG, NB and Danny Strong for "Unaired pilot". It's the main cast that are tricky, since they are listed for the episodes that they were just credited for, as well (though IMDB usually puts the note "credit only" in those cases

[lostboy_lj]

I know that Tara and Cordelia are main characters. I never said otherwise. Like I said, I wasn't going for completeness, just a smattering. Completeness here is pretty subjective, anyway. For instance, where is Mr. Trick(5)? His name was even used as part of an episode's title, but he doesn't appear on your list. Does Ethan Rayne make the list? He's well known despite his paucity of appearances, and like Mr. Trick he is pretty notorious in a "Boba Fett" sort of way.