Epic Friendship in Sherlock S4 (so far) vs Cursed Child

[lokifan]

I saw Cursed Child again last night ♥ ♥ ♥ It was still atmospheric and exciting and beautiful. One of the phrases I keep using to talk about Cursed Child is Epic Friendship, with those capitals. It’s a phenomenon I’ve seen before but I hadn’t thought of it in quite those terms before. So to define: Epic Friendship, to me, is when the relationship

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[kikimay]

Am I strange if I say that I don't see the Johnlock angle? Really, to me their love is the purest but it's not sexual or romantic, it's friendship. A friendship that means even more than sex or romantic attachment. I don't know if I'm missing something because, apparently, Sherlock is queer-coded

[lokifan]

I mean I don't ship them myself, and have never thought they'd become canon. What gets to me is the queerbaiting, i.e. lots and lots of "haha it's like they're gay except they're totally not". Via Irene Adler & Mrs Hudson & Angelo the guy in the restaurant, as well as the Sherlock/Moriarty fantasised kiss. They make explicit comparison between John and Sherlock's relationship and various romantic & sexual ones, and often treat John's girlfriends as Sherlock's rivals - all while never showing actual attraction between the men. That bothers me. Like, yeah, the Irene Adler scene - I have to think part of the point of it was queerbaiting. Suggesting they might go there with a famously homoerotic friendship to get interest and laughs, but knowing they won't

[kikimay]

OMG, queerbaiting is so disappointing! It's 2017, guys, please! I could see the Mrs Hudson's jokes being just jokes ... maybe because I'm not affected by this ship? I'm fine with them just being best friends and so I just smile at the jokes. But yeah, annoying and frankly even offensive in some way.

What touches make you think romantic love between Scorpius and Albus? Oh, you know, it's just an impression ... but the fact that they hesitate so much with the hug, for example. (And, again, you could just interpret it as boys being awkward. Totally legit!) But it feels like boys trying to understand how to deal with physicality

[lokifan]

I can see the hug thing - I suspect it'd come across to me more strongly in text, because with the actors it doesn't feel that way at all. Especially since the hugs are enormous, clinging things - once they're intiated they're fearless yet lack any sensuality. And y'know, English teenage boys especially, they find the hugs awkward.

The "you're kind, Scorpius, from the depths of your belly to the tips of your fingers" is lovely. And it's certainly a declaration of love, it just seems platonic to me. Like I said, I think a lot of it is the actors' portrayal

[mothwing]

I resent fanfic for killing off women for male emotional growth whether or not it’s in the name of slash, and I’d feel similarly , about this.
Absolutely! I resent this view that meaningful relationships outside the main buddyship are always portrayed as a threat, which takes monogamy to a completely ridiculous level. Not only can there be only ONE TRUE romantic relationship, there can only be ONE TRUE relationship, PERIOD. This is not how people work.

I adore Cursed Child and its focus on (parents and) friends, including Epic Friendship that helps you save the world. I love the focus on adult friendships as vital and sustaining and helping you become the best version of yourself - and not pale replacements of romantic or familial relationships, much as marriages and families are central to the play.Interesting point, and absolutely. Now that I think about it, that aspect makes up for the need to establish the heterosexual core family as ultimate prize outcome of DH. It was good to see that there was a life after Ever After and that

[lokifan]

I resent this view that meaningful relationships outside the main buddyship are always portrayed as a threat, which takes monogamy to a completely ridiculous level. Not only can there be only ONE TRUE romantic relationship, there can only be ONE TRUE relationship, PERIOD. This is not how people work.

SERIOUSLY. I mean, Sherlock doesn't do that within the story - Sherlock and Mary really get on, and her death drives the men apart rather than brings them together. But on the Doylist level it's hard to avoid that suspicion!

And again the comparison with CC is instructive - obviously it has its flaws but this is an area where it really shines. Harry/Ginny is obviously a central relationship in Harry's life, but we also have a lot of focus on Harry and Hermione, and on how Ron and Hermione saved him in so many ways, and Harry and Draco getting each other, as well as obviously Harry and Albus.

that aspect makes up for the need to establish the heterosexual core family as ultimate prize outcome of DH. It was good to see that there was a

[archaeologist_d]

I'm seeing Cursed Child in April. Still haven't seen the last Sherlock but I've been enjoying this series so far. I'm not into the Sherlock fandom so whatever is going on between John and Sherlock doesn't bother me nor do I want to know for sure. I'm happy with the way it is.

[lokifan]

I'm not in Sherlock fandom either, and certainly not a John/Sherlock shipper. But I have a whole bunch of opinions on the representation and British pop culture side :)

Cursed Child is absolutely wonderful. Hope you enjoy it!!