Comments | lokifan: Sigh

lokifan

Sigh

Aug 01, 2013 01:34

1. My university’s feminism discussion group is having a fail again as regards hip-hop and misogyny. I shouldn’t be surprised; our discussion of "Monster" by Kanye West, Nicki Minaj, Jay-Z et al (TW for that video: sexualised dead women like WHOA) was the first time I got in a Facebook fight because BLOODY HELL. That is a shocking video and I think ( Read more... )

rant

Comments 30

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lokifan July 31 2013, 19:09:37 UTC

Yeah, it's really horrible. But not horrible without a point, I think. Which isn't to try to persuade you or anything; I do totally get why it squicks and horrifies people. It doesn't make me feel fabulous watching it and I actually find it pretty fascinating as well as disturbing. What bothered me about this discussion was that none of the others acknowledged that there could be anything deeper going on or any reason for the horror movie motifs beyond 'we like sexy dead women.'

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lokifan July 31 2013, 19:23:23 UTC

I've added warnings; you were right. I'm really really sorry you're upset. :(

I totally see your point and God knows YMMV on this; like I said, it's not people being upset/angry because of this video that bothers me at ALL. But I also think the idea that a rap video/song isn't a good place to bring up finer details of racism and race politics is not borne out by history.

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nerak_rose July 31 2013, 19:42:03 UTC

hay-on-wye in west of england LOL wales =/= england *shakes head*

i'm going to have to watch that video!

lokifan July 31 2013, 19:47:44 UTC

LOL RIGHT. Like, you're aware of it enough that it's your first example of a clump of bookshops all together... and yet, fail. Apparently he's one of those Americans who thinks England = Britain.

Be ready! It is definitely upsetting, and honestly for me the most disturbing, horrible bits are in the first 20 seconds. But it is also doing some really intelligent stuff with horror movie tropes (particularly as regards animalistic/feral monsters as racial tropes - the last montage of black werewolf women is so striking) and it is maybe my favourite Nicki Minaj thing ever, and I fucking love Nicki Minaj. Not least because she digs into the gender stuff a bit more when it comes to monster/horror tropes.

nerak_rose July 31 2013, 19:50:27 UTC

wonder if he's been there :P because i have, and while i didn't get my head chewed off that's only because i'd been schooled in the wales =/= england thing well beforehand. XD

i'm gathering that it's pretty upsetting, from the other comments. i'll probably leave it till tomorrow morning then, just in case :)

lokifan July 31 2013, 19:53:23 UTC

I think he must've been, which makes me lol/facepalm even more. And LOL. Good they prepared you :) I went to it for my eighteenth and SO FABULOUS.

Fair 'nuff. Lemme know what you think :)

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lokifan August 1 2013, 06:05:53 UTC

Totally fair! It is massively upsetting. The first minute is by far the worst, I think.

lady_of_clunn July 31 2013, 23:38:08 UTC

*watches video through fingers*

Eeeep!

If Hay-on-Wye is in the west or England, I probably live in Edinburgh, in the north of England?

lokifan August 1 2013, 06:06:55 UTC

Yep, eep is how I feel, too. Like, I think there's a lot there... but EEEEEEP.

LOL. I WOULD NOT BE AT ALL SURPRISED.

mayfly_78 August 1 2013, 00:35:31 UTC

Hm. I watched through to the end because I'm weird like that ( ... )

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lokifan August 1 2013, 06:50:42 UTC

the video was counter-productively making visual and thus blow up is the idea that black men are monstrous predators preying on delicate, helpless white women.

I don't think that means the message was hidden or only clear to 'liberal intellectuals'. The media sophistication of young/mainstream audiences isn't bad - like, I think "dead women are hot and edgy" does sort of come across and that is deeply squicky, but I also think a lot of other stuff comes across very strongly. I mean, the racism often evident in horror is some of the better-known media racism, and you get lines like the one I quoted above - "I'ma start rocking gold teeth and fangs/ cos that’s what a mutherfucking monster do" - I don't think "true" needs to be in scarequotes.

That said, I do think once you're using that imagery that... gratuitously, then maybe you're too enmeshed with the kyriarchy to fight it.

mayfly_78 August 1 2013, 23:11:15 UTC

I get what you're saying about why the dead women are mainly white. The video's insinuation that white women are pretty helpless objects is very insulting. If they are saying that black women are monsters, like the men, then that is in a way better than being objectified victims. At least they have their own agency.

Women are constantly being told, in the social justice women, that their issues and challenges in the world are less important than those of men--black men, gay men--etc. I'm sick of it, frankly.I totally totally agree with you here. I get into fights with my male gay friends over this all the time. This and their casual sexism and efeminophobia ( ... )

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