An interesting discussion on the definition of "slash" on JF

[liz_marcs]

What's funny is I did get into a conversation about applying the term "slash" to a canonical male-male pairing that appeared on a mainstream, prime time television show a few weeks ago.

The key difference was that we were all polite to one another while mulling over the application of "slash" to an episode of Cold Case, unlike the situation that

Comments

[ask_tiresias]

see that's new for me
I'd understood previously that the term /slash only applied to out-of-canon fan-created pairings that wouldn't happen within the original narrative/character arrangement.
Had kirk and spock been attracted to each other ON star trek, i don't think fanfic that explored that would merit that descriptor.
/slash, as I understood it, applies only to homebrew works in which same-sex heterosexual characters break archetype for the sake of fan-accessability-grounded wish fulfilment or comic deviance.

am I in the minority? i.e. does the term traditionally get applied correctly to settings beyond non-canon pairings?

[liz_marcs]

You've got the original term exactly right, but I think the meaning has evolved over time (thanks in large part because of the explosive growth in writhing fanfiction fueled by increased access to the Internet as a distribution network).

For example, under the old definition that you and I grew up with, Willow/Tara would not be slash because it's a canonical pairing, even if it's a same-sex pairing. Willow/Buffy would be slash because it's not a canonical pairing.

Under the definition that's evolved, "slash" now applies to any same-sex pairing, whether it's canonical or not. "Femslash" applies specifically to f/f pairings, whether it's canonical or not.

There also seems to be the emergence of new terms for same-sex pairings in fanfic these days, mostly driven by anime fandom (the one that springs to mind is yaoi).

*shrug* It's a little confusing, but it has been interesting to watch the evolution of the word "slash" and its definition over time to how it seems to be commonly used today.

[julia_here]

Meh. It's an interesting conversation, but since either Journalfen has a magical effect on me and deprives my writing of wit and cogency, or there's a few people over there who are suffering from a bad case of head-up-their-ass, I'm staying away.

I'm of the opinion that the term "slash" has been diluted to the point of meaninglessness, not only by being applied to canonical relationships (Brokeback Mountain and Queer as Folk fandoms being particularly responsible for that problem) but by the drive to put pairing labels on gen fic. The anime/manga stuff is more complicated, what with yaoi/yuri/shonen/chan, and by the time you bring in mecha you might as well throw up your hands and go home.

Add that in-fandom complexity to the fact that the term has escaped to the wild and shows up in non-fandom environments (where people seem to think it means under-age homoerotica) and the word may have become as meaningless as "graphic" has.

Julia, as the modifier comes to represent the thing modified, so goes the country, or something

[liz_marcs]

You've put the finger on what my my problem with the term "slash" is overall. I've noticed increased drift in how that term is used within fandom (in that it does seem to change meaning around the edges depending on the fandom you're in).

If there's some confusion over it's meaning within fandom (as the canon-noncanon debate application shows), how the hell can we expect people who are not involved with the fanfic end of fandom understand what it means? As someone pointed out over there, say "slash" to someone who knows nothing about fanfic and they'll think you're talking about a type of movie.

As for the anime/manga stuff...I throw up my hands at the various terms because they're confusing as hell to me. Maybe if I actually was an anime fan I'd get it.

Overall, I think the labeling issue has gotten out of hand, mostly because writers are trying to avoid a wanksplosion whenever someone clicks on a story and starts whining that the content has offended their virgin eyes. Hell, even if you mark it clearly, you'll still get a

What is Love?

[jakeexperience]

The way that American people use the various words taken from Japanese is different from the way that Japanese would use them. But the reverse is also true.

Yuri refers to relationships and love between two women. Americans also use the term shoujo-ai, but that is often used for platonic (and not always platonic) relationships between young girls.

Yaoi refers to a romantic relationship between two men. It's a genre pretty much exclusively developed to cater to women. Shounen-ai refers to platonic (but not often exclusively platonic) relationships between two boys or a man and a boy.

[skipp_of_ark]

I fondly recall the days when "Slash" was just what Saul Hudson, aka the former lead guitarist of Guns'N'Roses, called himself, but that's just me. :)

Having not yet followed the link to journalfen, I want to say that the only thing that bothers me nowadays is the rare instance where I click on a link to a story that is labeled as gen, or doesn't list any pairings although it may list the characters involved, only to find out that it *is* slash or that the writer assumes that everybody who reads is aware that she writes one or more canonically straight characters as exclusively gay or "was always gay and has now admitted it to himself." It's rare, but it has happened, and it's a (re)definition of "gen" that annoys. Am I really supposed to assume that slash is the default category of all fanfic?

[msp_hacker]

While slash isn't the best way to put things, I think it's better to lable things het/slash/gen, than het/homo/gen. 'Cause "homo" - while it fits the pattern, I just can't strip it of it's derogatory meaning.

[liz_marcs]

If I were queen of fandom, I'd just have "character name/character name" to describe a romantic pairing or "character name, character name" to describe where there's none

[msp_hacker]

For me, it's not acceptable at all to label a story with a pairing in it as gen. For me, it's clear as glass and I have a tendency to overwrite in mt head whatever nonsense people put in their notes with my labeling system

[janedavitt]

We were models of politeness! ::beams and squishes you tight::

Not that there was anything to argue about, mind you... it's a difference of definition; not a biggie.

unless the word under discussion is 'drabble'

[julia_here]

unless the word under discussion is 'drabble'

Then we shall bring out the long knives!

Julia, obviously supposed to be doing something else, with a deadline, since I'm writing long comments instead

[liz_marcs]

Bwah!

But seriously, though. I think there's a lot of middle ground to be had here and I also think context is hella important. In certain areas, I can see why someone would use "slash" (i.e., internet shorthand when talking to other fans and using it to describe a kind of relationship).

It's when slash is used a weapon against the portrayal of same-sex relationships in fanfiction (as it sometimes is) or in mainstream media where the problem really lies. The long and short of it is, I'd hate to see "slash" or "femslash" broadly used in that manner in the mainstream.

[janedavitt]

I didn't phrase myself well thinking about it (am baking 72 cookies ::licks frosting off fingers:;).

Discussing the definition and the definition itself is important, definitely; I just don't see why it has to be the kerfuffly kind of discussion (and it so wasn't when we did it :-)). It should be something that can be discussed on cool not heated.

Or maybe I've had too much 'nog...

[pinkdormouse]

I tend to use 'slashy' to refer to some same-sex relationships in various media, where they really do read as if written in a typical 'slash-style'. On the other hand not all non-canon same-sex relationships in fanfic fit into that category, where slash is as much about a particular style as anything else (I know my fanfic has tended to be 'slashier' in that sense when I've been writing for slash-con zines than when I'm writing for any other reason).

From a personal angle, describing a canon relationship as slashy is going to potentially put me off, although I'll use the term to pimp the canon to slashers. Perverse, but I know what I like from my canon, and I know what most of the slashers on my F'List are going to like.

[kaenne]

Hi moouse ;) I like that you sayd here. Think that you make a right choice.