Comments | little_details: Canada - alcoholism / food poverty plausibility, and specific foods eaten

doranwen in little_details

Canada - alcoholism / food poverty plausibility, and specific foods eaten

Aug 30, 2018 20:27

I'm writing a story about a girl whose father was a cop in Toronto until his alcoholism took over and caused him to lose his job. I'm trying to confirm that the setup as I've got it is plausible, and also figure out some details of what they would eat ( Read more... )

canada: food and drink, canada (misc), 1990-1999

Comments 27

cattraine September 2 2018, 18:46:19 UTC

They will be eating a lot of pasta, (i.e. ramen noodles) rice and dried beans. If she is smart she will be looking for agencies that offer free groceries ( no questions asked) on certain days of the month. If she has a part time job in food service (which is basically the only job a teen can get) maybe she can take stuff home from work. No part time job is going to pay rent in Toronto. Better make sure Dad actually owns a house, because coming up with utilities and taxes is going to be expensive enough.

doranwen September 2 2018, 18:53:32 UTC

Hmm... any chance her dad has any kind of automatic income for his years on the job that she'd be able to draw from if she gets to it first? I'm flexible regarding his age - hers is the only age set in stone. Assuming she's somewhere from 14 to 16 at the point they have to switch housing (because they're trying to stay off the radar of the people her dad worked with, so staying in the same house isn't really going to be an option - plus her mom left a few years before so any income from her went then, they'd have downsized as they could), that gives quite a range of ages for him.

I did some searching regarding pensions, and got this article, which refers to "full pensions" after 25 years... so if he was forced to "retire" early because of his addiction, would he have been able to get a partial pension that they're drawing on, maybe? I can see her finding ways to get at the money first, or to set up an automatic payment as soon as it's in the account, etc. (I don't have to go into any of this in the scenes I'm writing, as long as ( ... )

blondebeaker September 2 2018, 21:27:17 UTC

1998 in Toronto? I was around the age of your character then, but I lived outside of Toronto then so hopefully I can help some ( ... )

amw September 3 2018, 00:19:52 UTC

Regarding the LCBO problem, there are ways to get alcohol in Ontario without going through them directly. However in my experience the gray market vendors and after hours joints tend to be more expensive, not less. I guess one possibility for the storyline might be that the character has access to moonshine, but honestly at that point it seems more likely to me they'd just do different drugs since that's easier to get hold of in the city.

On rent, I don't think you can get a housing commission flat on no notice, which seems to be the storyline here. Many people in sudden poverty live out of shelters while they are on the waiting list. If money really is tight I think jumping between shelters and acquaintances with a spare room is more common. At least, this is how some of my friends got by in Toronto in the 2010s.

doranwen September 3 2018, 01:10:48 UTC

I have it very vague about his sources of alcohol; he's not really a focus of the story, so could go with whatever. The third character who is seeing most of this isn't paying much attention to him.

Well, the story picks up a good while after he's lost the job and has moved and all that, so it's very possible they were in a shelter for a while. The story doesn't need to go into the background as long as the result's plausible. :) The few scenes set at this time in her life are mostly focused on another character who stays at her place for a couple days, so what he would be observing and whatnot. When she was 14 she was in a more stable environment, the story jumps to when she's 16 and in the current situation, so I would think two years would be enough to get from where they were to where they are now? Hopefully? :)

amw September 3 2018, 01:39:48 UTC

I didn't live in Toronto during the 90s and have no personal experience waiting for public housing, but for the purpose of the story if there is a couple years gap I think that would be reasonable. Then, assuming they live "south of Bloor" (central Toronto) I agree with the OC about Chinatown and the various discount stores. Canned food, pasta, rice and beans all make sense. I think eating work leftovers is an especially good idea for indicating poverty, since the other stuff is also pretty standard for middle class vegetarians and vegans.

Thread 16

meg_tdj September 3 2018, 22:46:42 UTC

I lived in the sort of greater Toronto area in the 90s, and at the time you're talking about my parents were involved in a ministry that helped underprivileged children and their families, so I was in a lot of poverty-stricken homes and kitchens. Certain kinds of eggs would definitely be cheap, and there would be cereal (corn flakes, rice krispies, oatmeal) which could be eaten for any meal or snack, but remember if you have her use milk it would come in a bag and not a carton. Kraft Dinner was always a go-to (macaroni and cheese) because it was super-cheap, often adding chopped up hot dogs to make it more of a meal. Canned beans were popular, and spaghettios or beefaroni or whatever... a can of Chef Boyardee made a meal for very little money. Also Chunky Soup was a big one, a filling meal of meat and vegetables in one can. Also, potatoes were pretty cheap and would go a long way if you had a pot to boil them in. Carrots, green beans, peas, and corn were usually the dinner vegetables, canned or frozen. Probably a kid would reach for ( ... )

doranwen September 3 2018, 23:04:08 UTC

Thank you - that is very helpful ( ... )

meg_tdj September 3 2018, 23:13:24 UTC

The problem with buying rice in bulk is the time it takes to cook it. But if she has a slow-cooker or something that she can leave on all day while she's at school, then yeah, definitely stuff like rice and lentils would be cheap and really filling. That was how my mom shopped when our budget was tight - cheap but as filling and nutritious as possible. The over-processed crap (like microwavable rice) leaves you hungry and unhealthy, so it costs you more in the long run.

I guess it depends on how desperate she feels. If she's gained some control over the situation, she might be comfortable spending a little more now for a longer-lasting food source that will keep her healthy. But if it's all new to her and she hasn't had much guidance, she might just be clipping coupons and taking whatever she can get.

doranwen September 3 2018, 23:21:28 UTC

Yeah, I'm used to cooking white rice on the stove in about 20 minutes, brown takes a good deal longer, but if she's cooking it for the following day, she could be doing her homework while it cooks.

My scenes come in after she's been dealing with this for quite a while - so yeah, she probably started with the pre-packaged stuff but then took the time to figure out how to economize as she could.

Thank you again! This was really helpful. And knowing what she would've been doing otherwise (if she weren't cooking more healthfully) is actually very useful - there's a scene I'll be writing that will mention some of that contrast and it'll be a bit of a characterization, even a plot point. :D

Thread 8

sabotabby September 25 2018, 00:16:07 UTC

If it's not too late (I'm never on LJ anymore), a few things to add. I'm around the same age as your character, grew up near Toronto, and moved there around 1999 with very little monies.

A critical thing that happened in that era is that Mike Harris, then Premier of Ontario, cut welfare rates by 21.6%. Anyone poor went from "barely getting by" to "not getting by at all" with a side-helping of taunting from the gov't. The social services minister, Dave Tsubouchi, published a "welfare diet", recommending that poor people haggle with shopkeepers for cans of tuna. This would probably hit your family pretty hard ( ... )