Pyres in the ground?

[agdhani]

I'm trying to determine the logistics (if it is even possible) for an ancient culture to burn a body within a hole in the ground. As I understand it, ancient pyres/cremation left more of the body afterwards then modern cremation techniques provide. Given my fictional culture's issues with death (and the taboos around it) I'm already have them

Comments

[khemlab]

I think it might be worthwhile to look at more cooking-style burning (sorry, it's a bit gross to think of in the same context as human remains). But many cultures dig a pit to cook a whole animal, such as a goat or pig. It would at least help you with logistics.

[agdhani]

No need to be sorry...it gives me some direction for research, so its all good :)

[tabaqui]

I can't give you any tips or info on body-burning, but i do know that when we make a firepit, it is a *pit*. You dig down and make a pit to put the tinder and wood in, and it burns fine.

Unless you tried to cover up the pit before the fire was going well, and smothered it, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Also, look at the method of cooking underground they use in Hawaii - it's very possible to build a fire underground, and instead of letting it die down and cooking a pig, you keep it built up and burn the remains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalua

[rustica]

There's also the Maori hangi method of cooking. NZ originally had no mammels (except bats /pedant) - pigs were introduced quite late on, so most of the cooking is designed for vegies but there's some info here http://www.maori.cl/Hangi.htm about what rocks, types of wood etc you'd need for a successful cooking pit.

[agdhani]

thank you both! I had not considered a similar method being used for 'cooking' instead of disposal, so it gives direction for research.

[whswhs]

It seems like it ought to be possible. Charcoal was made by building a big stack of wood and covering it over with soil so that it couldn't get enough air to oxidize all the carbon content, and then starting smoldering combustion that drove off the volatile gases (largely water vapor). If you had a body in the middle of all that wood I'd think it would be burned down the same way-though the fat might be a problem for controlled combustion.

[agdhani]

awesome, thank you.

[indian_skimmer]

Again, no body-burning experience (sorry) but I've made fires by digging a pit, putting a framework of logs over it and then building the fire (pyre in this case) on top of that.

It burns really well (and hot) until it eventually burns through the logs at the bottom when everything drops down into the pit and you can cover it up.

[agdhani]

Thanks for the help. I can work with these details :)

[syntinen_laulu]

The whole point about the very widespread technique of cooking large joints or whole animals in a pit is that it *didn't* burn the meat but instead cooked it slowly and deliciously. So unless your culture's funerary practice entails ritual cannibalism, I think burning the body in a pit is impracticable.

Or rather, it would be pointless - these people would be consuming a whole lot of firewood for no actual purpose, since there would still be a recognisable body left at the end of the process. They might was well just dig the hole and bury the body without any preliminary burning.

[khemlab]

This is a really, really good point. Maybe OP could add some sort of vent construction feeding air into the pit?

[agdhani]

These were the points I was wondering about, and how to work around them (if possible). Thanks for the info.

indeed.

[turbobeholder]

Which leaves two options: a wide shallow pit and intermediate solution: pyre/burial mound.
The latter apparently actually happened sometimes (e.g. Shumsk) as who knows what, probably mass graves after an epidemy clearly human sacrifices (as drawn out of Caesar's record of scare stories about Gallic druids who weren't anywhere around, ever) to unknown deity (but can be conjectured as the source of some fairy tale character) in unknown context, which demonstrates how modern forms of idolatry are better.
Basically, if they don't want to put ashes into urns to move them anywhere else, proper burning needs but one more step:
1) Dig a wide trench as a wind box feeding air into the pit(s) - if there are several pits, they may branch off it.
2) Fill the pit(s) with firewood.
3) Place the remnants (maybe in coffins) on top of firewood.
4) Set it on fire and wait until cinders collapse into pit(s) and stop smoking.
5) Back fill the whole thing.
6) Add extra dirt and/or stones and/or custom memorial signs on top, whichever the local tradition