Is there a good source for how people look after they've died certain ways?

[tamtrible]

Location: not really relevant, but near future, mostly in the western US

Comments

[dinogrrl]

specific causes of death that leave an interesting and/or distinct appearance, and causes that leave a relatively live-looking corpseIn my experience (veterinary, but death happens to animals too), most things that cause an 'interesting or distinct appearance' to a corpse are not going to result in a 'live-looking' corpse. Maybe something like clotting disorders or internal bleeding; you may see bruising or petechiae (like tiny bruises) under the skin, perhaps on the gums, maybe on the whites of the eyes, but overall the body will probably look relatively normal. Various organ dysfunctions may cause swelling in some parts of the body, or skin color change (such as jaundice, as someone else suggested). Cancer can cause emaciation, the body may look 'livable' but it wouldn't look healthy

[tamtrible]

That's probably my window for infection after death... they need at least a vaguely functional circulatory system (maybe not all the capillaries, those can probably be bypassed or something, but at least the veins and arteries). They can probably slowly replace dead blood cells with something else, but it takes time, so if the fungus doesn't infect someone before all their blood dies, it can't make a functional zombie out of the body.

And the interesting and live questions are separate. I was looking for things that would leave a corpse that a knowledgeable person could say "Well, that zombie probably died of X", and zombies that, at least for a while, could "pass" as still alive, and hopefully alive and relatively healthy (because the zombie hive will be trying to infect people, and most people won't let a sick-looking stranger kiss them, even those who'd let a healthy stranger of the appropriate gender do so)

[moon_custafer]

These morgue photographs from the 1970s (scroll down) would seem to indicate that unless death was by violence or some disease that causes skin discolouration, the specific cause isn't usually obvious, though that may also be because most of these are closeups of faces (while the murder victim's torso is shown post-autopsy).

TW for dead people, obviously, though the pictures are more sad than scary.

[tamtrible]

I suspect bodies would show more differentiation, if only because people who die of illnesses often have physical symptoms while still alive...

[dhampyresa]

You might try looking at body farms.

[tamtrible]

Except, those are more about decomposition. I'm looking for, essentially, what they look like right after they die. In essence, the zombies look about like what would happen if a recently dead person got up and started walking around, at least until they've been zombies for a while (or have major injuries to repair, those get patched up with zombie fungus)

[dhampyresa]

My mistake, I hadn't realised long-term decomposition would not matter. Short-term decomposition involves autolysis, so maybe your fungus could react to a certain about of digestive enzymes? I seem to recall that it might also be accompanied by a change in pH, but I'm not sure.

As far as distinct appearances go, any violent death would of course be obvious. I'd would like to point out that pallor mortis sets in almost immediately after death when the blood drains away from the skin. The darker a person's skin is the less visible it is, though.

Likewise, cyanosis leaves the skin gray-ish/purple-ish/blue-ish, but might not be visible in some people. (Also, you're unlikely to use it, but I think a zombie withgreen blood would be really cool.)

[tamtrible]

So darker-skinned zombies might look more alive. Check.

[green_grrl]

The only distinct appearance I could think of other than jaundice is that the bodies of people who have died of carbon monoxide poisoning (someone with a malfunctioning furnace, a suicide who used auto exhaust) have a "cherry red” appearance and they are sometimes described as looking "healthy" as opposed to the pale/blue color of most corpses. This could lead to some confusion in identifying a zombie!

[moon_custafer]

There are two carbon monoxide cases in the link I posted, but I realize the downside to the photos being black-and-white -- nicely dramatic but I totally missed that.

[tamtrible]

The zombies aren't quite as pale as normal corpses, because they do have *some* circulation. But they might still retain the cherry red from CO poisoning.

[lilacsigil]

Many people who die fairly slowly (of heart or lung failure in particular) gain a great deal of fluid as their bodily systems stop moving it around, and may be much heavier at their deaths than they were in life. The founder of the Atkins diet passed away and had his (heavy) weight at death publicised as a mean joke, but it's really pretty common for blood and fluid to pool in the lower limbs and abdomen. So I would expect zombies with pouchy torsos and legs.

[tamtrible]

Hrm. Interesting point. Trying to decide whether and/or to what extent 1. zombification would eventually correct that, and/or 2. it would happen to all zombies. They have circulation, but it's *very* slow relative to humans (think a heartbeat or 2 every minute).

If you have any intelligent thoughts on the matter, I'd love to hear them.

[lilacsigil]

I do have thoughts! There are two reasons why fluid pools in the body

[tamtrible]

Very helpful.

The fungus may absorb fluids and leave the body with less total blood volume, which may partially correct the second issue. On the other hand, it may happen to at least some extent even with zombies that *didn't* die slowly like that.

The zombies can only heal by, in essence, patching the wound with fungus. So an old zombie will *definitely* look pretty different.

And the thing I'm most concerned about is that there would be some zombies who'd look alive and healthy enough that the kind of people willing to kiss strangers would be willing to kiss them...