Cell (mobile) phone GPS tracking and data retrieval - damaged phone/SIM card

[g_shadowslayer]

First, I have been following this comm for years, and only realized today when I tried to post this question that I'd never joined. So, I'm new, sort-of. Hopefully I'm doing this right - it seems really disjointed and I'm totally at a loss...I'm working on a Person of Interest fic - the show takes place in NYC and the main protagonists have an

Comments

[anonymous]

I can't help you with the first part, but if you go back and waht the episide where Ellias first showed up, Reese's phone was damage and Finch could not locate him. So to keep in consistent with the series, I'd say that if Reese broke the phone and sim, then Finch would only know where he was up to that point. (assuming he was activly trackign him prior to that happening) After that, he'd be waiting for the check in call. Maybe go with old fashined land line? (again, going back to the Ellias ep. where he did just that.) Since CIA doens't know about the main base, they would not be monitoring the lines.

Great series, btw.

[g_shadowslayer]

Good point! Hadn't even thought of that part. *facepalm* Last known location would still be helpful in the situation I'm using, at least. Thanks!

[silicondragon]

The data can be potentially retrieved from both the damaged phone and the damaged SIM. Physically, they are stored in memory cells located on the silicon dies on the chips, of the card processor in the case of SIM and of the flash memory of the phone. The SIM chip is surrounded by epoxy blob and the card's plastic, and can survive quite some abuse (as long as the die does not crack; the gold wires can be torn off rendering the card inoperable, but these can be reconnected in the lab). I believe that with enough resources (and time!) partial data could be recovered even from a chip fragment, from the cells present at that fragment. In case of the phone, the flash chip is protected by the phone casing and the circuitboard and the flash chip packaging; same theory applies as for the SIM. Destroying the chip with a piece of thermite (or a welding torch, or electric arc) is the best bet; less drastic approaches may or may not work depending on luck and adversary's capability, though even the best-equipped one will need time and in many

[g_shadowslayer]

Thanks - that's very helpful! (And my instincts were good because I have the protagonist wishing he'd had time to burn the card...)

[ffutures]

A minute or two in a microwave would almost certainly make it unreadable. You'd be zapping the circuits with incredibly high voltages and currents, which is pretty much guaranteed to kill it.

[g_shadowslayer]

While that's true, it's not exactly an option in a back alley by a deserted warehouse. His best option for burning it would've been a trash can fire. However, still would've been more effective than grinding it under his heel and then throwing it as far as he could. Ah well...

[alassenya]

Personally I would suggest burning the SIM and then destroying any remnants with acid. They really are sturdy and a lot of data can be retrieved . (Same goes for SD/XD cards too, you can bend them, break them and even bang holes in them with a hammer and you can still retrieve data).

I'm not sure that GPS data from he phone could be obtained if the SIM isn't in place - I can't even get mine to turn on without a SIM. If it was bugged though, that would be different.

[g_shadowslayer]

Unfortunately not an option in the situation he's in, but definitely something I'll keep in mind for other occasions - thanks!

[anonymous]

Does the character need to get rid of the phone? Just turning the power off on the phone will make it untraceable. I do tech support for cell phones, and you can't trace a phone that's turned off, or even just in airplane mode. If it's not hitting towers, it's effectively dead. If he's not afraid of being caught with the phone, he can just take it with him.

[g_shadowslayer]

He definitely needs to get rid of it and/or make it as unoperable as possible, since he's about to get caught by the bad guys.

However, I'm going to pick your brain on the other parts of this - what part of the phone itself is the 'traceable' part if it's powered up? Is it the SIM card itself, or the rest of the phone, or both? In other words, if the phone itself is dead but the bad guys stick the SIM card in a reader, is there any way it could be traced by someone else? (If no, then I'll just go with the 'last known location' idea.)

Thanks!

[lindenfoxcub]

It depends on the phone and what you're trying to hide. The part that's traceable location wise is the signal the phone sends out to nearby towers. For the phone to work, the towers send a signal to it, and then it sends a signal back - send-receive, it has to go both ways. That's why you can have nearly full bars of service showing on the phone, but not be able to make a call - the towers send out a stronger signal than the phone, depending on the phone - it's not the carrier, you've got a crappy phone. In order to locate a phone's exact position you get info from three different towers, and, based on signal strength received at each, triangulate where it is in between those towers. If it's not hitting three towers, though, it's going to be harder to impossible to get detailed location information, other than, somewhere within so many metres of x tower, or somewhere between x tower and y tower

[lindenfoxcub]

this is the same person from the beginning of the thread, btw, didn't notice I wasn't logged in on the first post.

[anonymous]

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