1700s Homosexuality and Pirates

[likethepaint]

Setting: 1703/4 pirate ship

Comments

[the_physicist]

Even if in general it may have been tolerated, there's nothing to stop you having a very influential bully on board who is very homophobic and has it out to get them killed. Maybe there's a tradgedy and lots of pirates on the ship die--the bully goes on and on about how it's gods revenge because they have those two on board.

[the_physicist]

Just to add, yeah, they could easily make the distinction between homosexual acts and people who are actually gay and in love. Doesn't matter that the bible makes no differentiation, they would, easily.

[likethepaint]

That's a good point, thank you, I might have the bully be the captain or high ranking with good influence with the captain. I like the idea of it being argued to be gods reveng, that'd work really well in the story. Thanks!

[the_physicist]

here's a sad song for inspiration (one of my favourites):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dysG12QCdTA

[deannawol]

There was tolerance of homosexual acts but no mention of relationships because there weren't really any relationships. It was understood that when you were at sea, well a man has needs and if they can't be met one way, then they could be met another. It was more of a blind eye being taken, you know, time alone in the bunks, a meeting place on the ship where you only went to hook up

[likethepaint]

I might use this, make them considered a distraction to each other, and thus a threat to the well being of the ship. I want them to be killed for being with each other, hence why I didn't just have them caught on land (where the whole pirate thing would kind of overshadow the relationship thing) but I suppose being marooned for negating duty because of their relationship is pretty close.

It's a very confusing plot and entirely dependent on this one scene, which is very frustrating, especially since I never thought I'd have to search to justify homophobia.

Thanks!

[madder_rose]

There's a book called Rum, Sodomy and the Lash which was interesting, but I'm unsure how fact-checked it's been. It describes homosexual acts and pirates but not the open and (mostly) accepted relationships within the pirate community - since it was already broken down and a civilisation on its own it didn't need to adhere to regular societal norms.

But as deannawol said it's probably more likely that some form of dereliction of duty would get them marooned. Each person who "signed up" as a Pirate had to sign a contract of sorts where they agreed to terms. Amongst these were duties, no open flames in certain areas, no fighting, no drunkenness... etc. If they had an affair and forgot to stay on watch they could be punished for that.

[likethepaint]

Yeah, I read an academic article almost entirely based on that book, it looked really interesting, I'm gonna see if I can get hold of it, which should be easy, since I do history as my degree and can pretend I'm writing an essay not gay fiction...

Thanks for the suggestion! :)

[likethepaint]

XD it's not actually a book about pirates (well it is; it's about these two and they're always pirates at heart, but it's confusing,) they die in the first chapter, and then it's sort of set throughout history up to the modern day.

[likethepaint]

Thanks, I fear it's not quite as interesting as I've made it sound, but I hope it translates well to the story anyway. Once I've straightened out the details. :)

[rosamicula]

You probably need to shake off the notion of homosexual OR heterosexual - these are comparatively modern terms. I'd assume that pirate ships would be like English public schools,and the British navy and army of the time. Homosexual activity was rife, but not spoken of outside the dormitory/regiment/ ship. There was also a hierarchy, where junior members could be treated as fair game for older ones, and I'd guess a cabin boy on a pirate ship would be treated just the same as a junior rating on a navy ship.

In the eighties I had a boyfriend who had been at a top public school and in the army. In the former sex acts between boys were common and they were common but more covert when he was a junior officer. He maintained that he was not homosexual and had never had homosexual sex, because he had given and received hand and blow jobs and buggered other boys, but never allowed anyone to bugger him. There was a major stigma attached to assuming what was deemed to be the feminine, passive position, and those who solicited that role,

[likethepaint]

Like I said, I'm aware neither of my characters would have identified as homosexual, I merely used that term because it's the easiest word to use to express the sentiments. From what I've read pirate ships weren't really anything like navy ships, where there are numerius documented cases of men being killed for committing homosexual acts, in fact, they generally proposed that pirate ships went out of their way to be not like those ships. I dont know how true that is though.

I'm also not sure they made the distinction, as your boyfriend did, between top and bottom partners,so to speak. I've always understood that to be a relatively modern construct not one that would have been present on a pirate ship.

Thanks for your input :)

[the_physicist]

in fact, they generally proposed that pirate ships went out of their way to be not like those ships. I dont know how true that is though.

That's very true as far as i understand it. Life on a pirate ship could often be a lot better for the crew than on a ship of the line.

pirates weren't some rubbish drunkards who just happened to walk up to a ship and sign up. They wouldn't take just anyone, they needed to actually be useful, so they had to have full training on how to run a ship really, be useful sailors already for example. Which means most of them were ex-navy. On a pirate ship it was more of a democracy and everyone was expected to pull their weight. In the navy anyone would have cracked down hard on homosexuals, so it is possible that lot of them might run off to join pirate crews because of this and that those crews were therefore more accepting. But not everyone who was a pirate was gay, i'm sure, and some of the worst homophobes are actually gay themselves who don't want to accept it.

[likethepaint]

Thank you, this is what I had read, so it's good to know it's likely true.