Leave a comment

Comments 16

(The comment has been removed)

marycatelli October 15 2010, 02:53:39 UTC
Guess I need another legal fiction then.

Reply


stormwreath October 15 2010, 03:00:26 UTC
Which country are we talking about here?

There's a legal review of age of majority law here:
http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/consultation%20papers/wpAgeofMajority.htm
by the Irish Law Commission, dated 1977. It says that as a general rule, countries which have legal systems based off Roman law permit emancipation of minors, but those using Common Law (incuding Britain and most former British colonies) don't acknowledge the concept.

On th other hand... presumably the government will need to pass a law giving these artificial people the legal status and rights of a person anyway, won't it? Otherwise they could be considered machines or animals (or "soulless monstrosities", to the more reactionary elements of society!). The same law could also include a provision for permitting such beings to attain the legal age of majority at the discretion of a magistrate.

Reply

marycatelli October 15 2010, 03:29:38 UTC
Reactionary? That's not exactly an attitude limited in the political spectrum.

Anyway, legal fictions can be whipped up more quickly than laws. A Roman law precedent could be cited to fudge things up in haste. . . since I'm devising the legal system anyway.

Reply

marycatelli October 15 2010, 03:32:43 UTC
hmm. . . did I answer your question? In case it wasn't clear: one of my own devising. Come to think of it, I can have some fun with jurisdictional issues.

Reply


rangerfeline October 15 2010, 05:31:04 UTC
AFAIK, the concept of "minority" is a twentieth-century idea, at least here in the States. Children were considered small adults until pretty late in the game.

Reply

sollersuk October 15 2010, 06:17:22 UTC
In the UK in the past children might work etc but would not have legal capacity, for example the ability to enter into legal contracts or marry without parental consent, and their parents had certain rights over them and duties towards them. There was no organised way of becoming emancipated, but if a minor lived independently for a period away from home those rights - and duties - stopped. I'm cudgelling my brain for the law case that hung on this, but unfortunately I learned it a good many decades ago.

Reply

marycatelli October 15 2010, 17:25:42 UTC
Yeah, it was a civil law concept, not a common law one -- partly because under civil law, those parental rights were considerably more substantive.

If I were doing an alternate universe with the actual countries, I might get away with it in France, which relied considerably more on civil law. Since I have a free hand, I can probably have characters observe that the actual dependence on the two concepts vary between countries. . . hmm. . . probably even have some characters observe that emacipation wouldn't work on some countries.

Reply

marycatelli October 15 2010, 16:53:33 UTC
oh no. If I were writing a pseudo-Imperial Rome setting rather than a pseudo-Victorian one, there would be no question about using emancipation -- it was an unquestioned part of Roman law.

Which is why I may fool around with separate countries having different amounts of common and civil law in their laws.

Reply


torrain October 15 2010, 14:37:16 UTC
Could they simply be declared emancipated? Or if the weight of the word doesn't fit, been said to have been granted manumission?

The concept of emancipation meaning someone who's freed to become a member of society has been around since at least the mid-nineteenth (I'm sure earlier, but right now can't place more than the Emancipation Proclamation). They wouldn't need to be "minors-but-full-citizens" if their actual age isn't the reason they were declared wards of the state. They could simply have been declared wards of the state due to not being considered competent as adults, and then released once they were.

There's a section in a book on Victorian childhood that looks interesting, for its observation of how the practical reality of life might have contrasted with the abstract age of majority.

This summary notes that orphans in educational schools were expected to start work at age 17; this one points out how rare being put in an orphanage (or even a workhouse) could be. If all the artificially created people are declared ( ... )

Reply

marycatelli October 15 2010, 17:05:09 UTC
That assumes a marvelous flexible society that is willing to quickly propound new rules for new situations and does not prefer to try every conceivable trick to get it covered under the old rules. Most societies prefer the second route, actually.

("Emancipation" is straight from ancient Rome and so the term is no problem.)

Reply

torrain October 16 2010, 01:07:21 UTC
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear--I didn't mean to suggest a flexible society, only one that was hesitant to extend the status of "human children" to "ignorant artificially created beings". Which is why I rambled (unclearly, I see that now) in the direction of there being ways for adults to be considered incompetent, too, and being able to prove themselves fit to join society.

But yeah; your point about old rules sticking around is well taken. :) Sorry I couldn't be more helpful (although thank you, as your post has gotten me thinking about the various criteria for competency in societies, which is interesting in that weird, brain-tickling sort of way...).

Reply

marycatelli October 16 2010, 03:12:30 UTC
Well, they are under the age of majority. In fact, they are none of them seven years old, which would raise the question of why they wouldn't be considered minors.

Reply


rhiannon_s October 15 2010, 20:45:32 UTC
Also, consider class. Upper class (and upper middle), you were your parents play things until they shuffled off their mortal coils (although if they shuffled off too early, generally before 18-21 depending on gender you might find a maiden aunt taking over). lower and middle, middle class it was generally held you'd be able to participate as an adult around 21 (or less if you joined the army), working class and below. You were an adult as soon as your started acting like one (working class people really wouldn't be expected to have formal contracts over anything, so being competent to sign one is pretty much moot ( ... )

Reply


Leave a comment

Up