Poisoning and Public School queries

[powdered_opium]

Okay, so I've questions for a project I've been researching because, alas, the wonders of Google have failed me...

The context is that two of my characters, let's call them (in a fit of originality) A and B, attend public school in England until the age of 16-17 when, in the year of 1864, I want them both to be expelled.

Comments

[dustthouart]

Clarification: the duke is still alive?

I just want to be clear that you understand who is and who is not a Lord in the sense of a peer. The eldest son of a Duke is usually a Marquis but occasionally an Earl or even lower rank, as a courtesy title; almost always the eldest son's eldest son also has a courtesy title which is a lower rank still (if the son is a Marquis, the grandson is an Earl, etc). But these are courtesy titles (meaning, basically, that A isn't really an Earl [since he can't sit in the House of Lords] but we'll all pretend like he is and treat him like one at parties

[marycatelli]

To be more detailed: by the time a noble house gets to a duchy, they've generally picked up a whole slew of titles along the way. Which they don't lose on getting the higher ones. The heir apparent is called -- as a courtesy title -- the second highest title. His heir apparent is called by the third highest title. If they've got them.

[dustthouart]

In the... 17th century? I think? it became the thing to insert filler titles if needed. To use Wellington as an example again, he went straight from being The Honourable Arthur Wellesly to being the Duke of Wellington, so the Monarch helpfully filled in a number of titles for the heirs to use, such as the Marquess Douro, the Earl of Mornington, etc. In fact it can go straight down to the great-grandson if all the title holders are alive at once (the great-grandson of the current Duke of Wellington is the Viscount Wellington).

I can't think of any dukes whose eldest sons don't have a courtesy title, at least nothing extant. Grandsons, yes.

[dustthouart]

Actually, all Wellington's titles were earned in sequence- baron and viscount in 1809, earl and marquis in 1812, and duke in 1814. Is it possible you're confusing him with someone else? I've had a quick look at the standard list of royal favourites and military heroes- Buckingham, St Vincent, Nelson, Marlborough- but without success

[gogoangelgunboy]

i think the word dustthouart was looking for is "rustication," not "ruralization." that's being barred from the school for the remainder of the term. the usual term for getting thrown entirely out of school was expulsion, i think - i'm not sure if being "sent down" was only used for university expulsion

[powdered_opium]

It helped very much, thank you! A counts as your "natural leader" type, and B is pretty intelligent, so sixth form is probably the way to go ^^ Setting the place on fire, hey? Oh, the possibilities...xD And I may have to write in your kindly housemaster for B's reaction.
Again, thank you so much!~

[gogoangelgunboy]

if you haven't yet, you might want to have a look at some of the english school-fiction that's available on project gutenberg, as well as "tom brown's schooldays" and "stalky & co." they're fictionalised versions of public schools, but they give you a flavor of the slang, the way the boys spend their days, what they study and eat and stuff.
glad i could help - i don't often see questions that go right to things i actually know about! *laughing*

[powdered_opium]

Off to terrorise the librarians once more, it seems ^^ And thank you so much! It's all right, I'm never any good at replying to queries on here *laughs with you*
- xx

(Sorry for the late reply, I've been extremely busy with schoolwork O.o)

[sushidog]

Just a minor point; whatever your two boys do to get expelled, A's offence will probably have to be considerably worse than B's in order for them both to receive equal punishment.

[powdered_opium]

I assumed this would be the case, but thank you very much for confirming it, I shall keep it in mind~

[emily_shore]

I have heard of illegitimate children being sent to public school by their fathers but it would have been more common in the eighteenth century and into the early nineteenth. I don't know whether the bullying would have been as bad as sollersuk suggests, but in 1864 it would have been rather unusual at the very least

[emily_shore]

That should have been "particularly if A and B are in different houses from one another."

[powdered_opium]

I shall be searching the library shelves for Tom Brown's Schooldays now. The information about refusal to associate is very helpful. A is a little standoffish as a character ^^ I have the idea of B being the more social one - A, whilst polite and friendly, keeps his distance, almost the interested outsider if you will.
Thank you very much for your help!~

[emily_shore]

All of these books are available online at this point. Google Books or the Internet Archive or Project Gutenberg. Makes things very easy!

[grinninfoole]

A great source of information on an array of mind-altering chemical is the Vault Of Erowid. Methanol isn't exactly their thing, but they did have this: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/alcohol/alcohol_info4.shtml

And there's lots of other good stuff there, too.

[powdered_opium]

Thanks for the linkage! <3 I appreciate it!
Sorry for the late reply, I've been extremely busy with schoolwork O.o
- xx