Rohypnol/Flunitrazepam as a knockout drug

[peacebone]

Setting: Present day, an unspecified but nice restaurant/hotel in Rome

Comments

Re: so you have two spies having dinner

[peacebone]

Well, the more experienced one is a bit too sure of his own competence, and is very eager to prove himself to his superiors (and this is not the only potentially risky thing he does because of these factors). He's familiar with various drugs that might be used in such a situation, and also knows that their enemies want them alive, so they'd be careful with the dosage... but it mostly comes down to his pride. He believes he can handle it, and doesn't want his boss to know that things are going quite that poorly.

[lilacsigil]

They come in tablets, but now have a blue dye added to them for exactly this reason (but maybe your poisoner could have a different, illegal source, or be using older tablets). The taste is not supposed to be particularly strong, alcohol increases the effects, and the drugged person becomes more and more out of it. The nasty thing here is that it doesn't always send people to sleep, as such - it makes them increasingly clumsy, out of it and susceptible to suggestion long before they actually lose consciousness, and that's how rapists walk victims out of clubs and/or get them into cars. This is how the Hot Chocolate Rapist (in Melbourne) operated, though he used assorted benzodiazepines, not just Rohypnol.

[peacebone]

Thank you for all of the clarifications. It's a little different from what I was first envisioning, but I think it'll still do very well. (I didn't know that about the dye - but yes, the organization they're up against is very well connected, and can probably get some more suited to their purpose.)

[denkichan]

How does the poisoner get it in the wine? I thought they opened the bottle at the table (this is just my impression from movies though, since I haven't been to a super fancy restaurant and don't drink wine).

[peacebone]

I think you're correct about that; I've never ordered wine at a nice place, either, so I'm going off of movies and such, too. The details are not entirely worked out yet, but I think the poisoner swaps an unopened bottle with one that's been prepared in advance - opened, spiked, and repackaged to look like new. He's from a powerful enough organization that this can be done with a little luck (i.e. hoping their targets aren't too spontaneous with their choice of wine that evening). The swap is probably done in the back just before the waiter brings it out to the table.

[syntinen_laulu]

It would be just about possible, given all the correct corking and capsule-fitting machinery, to re-close a bottle of wine so that you couldn't tell it had been tampered with, but it would be difficult, expensive and take time. Bear in mind that the entire purpose of the label and capsule, and the ritual of presenting the unopened bottle to the diner first, is to ensure that the wine is the genuine article, not substituted or adulterated

[peacebone]

Huh, I didn't know that there would be so many wines available - I was expecting a much shorter wine list than that. On one hand, the antagonists here have been watching their target for quite a while and have pretty good odds of knowing what he likes to drink, but given this and the discussion below, I'm rethinking their beverages of choice. The more experienced agent drinks wine fairly exclusively, but I've got a few other ideas for the situation and should be able to make it work. Thank you - I appreciate your help!

[quatorze]

I'd vote for another drink, an aperitif or something, for several reasons. As others have said, if they order a bottle it will be brought to the table, presented to them in its pristine condition, then opened. A small sample will be poured for one of them to taste, and I'd say in this case it would be the more experienced one - who really should be able to notice that the taste is somehow "off". Only after it's passed will the wine be poured into their glasses to drink. I think the only option for spiked wine would be that the place is one where you can order wine by the glass (dunno how common this is in Italy, sorry

[syntinen_laulu]

Just about any Italian restaurant will have a house wine that you can order by the glass or carafe. Even a good restaurant - much very good wine made by small producers in Italy is sold straight to a local restaurant, and as the restaurant know it's good the producers don't need to waste time and money giving it fancy labels. The customers rely on the judgement of the restaurateur that it's worth drinking.

I agree that it's unlikely that they would drink at radically different rates. My idea that the wine waiter might pour the first glassfuls and then (while their attention is distracted by some pre-arranged ploy by an accomplice) spike them, allows for the possibility that they aren't distracted enough for him to manage to spike more than one of the glasses before their attention comes back to the table.

[quatorze]

Just about any Italian restaurant will have a house wine that you can order by the glass or carafe

Duh. But of course they would! My only excuse is that it's over 20 years since I was in Italy, and didn't have the chance to experiment much back then... ˆ^

[peacebone]

That second point is why I was hoping for some early symptoms, or an odd taste or texture that the novice might casually remark upon, thus making his partner aware that there might be a problem... Since that seems unlikely at this point, I'll be rethinking this part of the situation.