Comments | little_details: Persephone, unusual origins / characteristics.

cataglottisme in little_details

Persephone, unusual origins / characteristics.

Sep 16, 2007 16:17

Are there sources mentioning Persephone as a truly nasty goddess? One actually ruling the Underworld, not just sitting there while Hades is in charge?
Apollodorus makes Styx her mother (not Demeter), and Homer tends to write her as a terrible goddess, far from the subdued one portrayed by Hesiod. Are there other sources portraying her that way?
I'd ( Read more... )

~religion: ancient greek

Comments 19

an_kayoh September 16 2007, 18:07:36 UTC

In Norse mythology, a woman (one of Loki's children) named Hel, rules their version of the underworld. Don't quote me on the name...I just seem to remember it being spelled with only one 'l' in a book I read.

valarltd September 16 2007, 18:22:18 UTC

It is indeed Hel. She is half woman, half corpse, the offspring of Loki and a giantess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(being)

"She has great possessions there; her walls are exceeding high and her gates great. Her hall is called Sleet-Cold; her dish, Hunger; Famine is her knife; Idler, her slave; Sloven, her maidservant; Pit of Stumbling, her threshold, by which one enters; Disease, her bed; Gleaming Bale, her bed-hangings. She is half blue-black and half flesh-color (by which she is easily recognized), and very lowering and fierce." from the sagas

an_kayoh September 16 2007, 18:43:17 UTC

She is half blue-black and half flesh-color

*shudder* I'd forgotten that bit.

seanchaidh September 16 2007, 18:25:51 UTC

Check out the story of Inanna, or more specifically the Descent of Innana. I think her sister's name was Ereshkigal, ruler of the underworld. I don't have my Inanna book nearby, but I'm pretty sure that's her name. Anyway, it's the same type of myth as the Persephone story, explaining why there are seasons. You'll be able to draw some pretty literal parallels.

eriolgal September 16 2007, 18:42:05 UTC

Yes, you beat me to the Inanna/Ereskigal comment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inanna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ereshkigal

There's a pretty good version of the story on the wikipedia page for Inanna, but if you want a far more exhaustive version of Inanna's Descent, it can be found here (click on the chapter that says "Myths of Tammuz and Ishtar" -- Ishtar was another name for Inanna).

seanchaidh September 17 2007, 16:17:02 UTC

Yay! My memory hasn't failed me yet! :)

sucrelefey September 16 2007, 18:28:02 UTC

Most of the dark side of Persephone comes from the Kore aspect issues. A current speculation is Persephone is a later concept when an earlier goddess that encompassed all of the earth including the interior and underground was divided up into more specialized goddesses.
The other bit is the etymology of her names breaks down as "to show" "light" and "to destroy" - "She who destroys the light"

Alternative names are Kore, Persephoneia, Persephassa, Phersephatta.

New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology. Nice book.

As for other ladies of the underworld not many come to mind. Hel suffers from some Christian rewrites so she's hard to pin down.

sucrelefey September 16 2007, 19:02:42 UTC

P.S.

Some one brought Kore up here before so check archive.
And the "destroy the light" part, well I think that's just a default of her nature being a goddess of the underworld where there is no light. She's not a particularly aggressive goddess. She is often portrayed not as nice but more icy aloof, cold, unemotional and impersonal.

mazal_ September 16 2007, 19:39:28 UTC

Though she's not strictly underworldly, this discussion brings to my mind a comparison with Kali (or Kali-Ma) of ancient Indian tradition.

A good book -- an actual print book -- on this type of thing is The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets by Barbara G. Walker. It's unabashedly feminist, and some of the Hebrew/Israeli content is, IMHO, a bit inaccurate, but it's a fascinating book and worth looking for later, if you can.

gamiila September 16 2007, 19:12:10 UTC

Recent research into the etymology of the name Persephone seems to suggest that far from being connected to the idea of destruction, in its original form it reflected her role as corn maiden, and ought more correctly to be translated as 'sheaf-beater'.

See, e.g.: http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=ancienthistory&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fcaelestis.info%2Fsauvagenoble%2F2005%2F11%2Fpersephone.html

sollersuk September 16 2007, 19:46:50 UTC

Okay, I'm coming from another couple of directions.

1. Drystan and Esyllt. Very much a Persephone story with the woman as a fairly innocent person.

2. Hel as Queen of the Underworld in her own right - flung out of the world of the gods because she was so ugly.

In the historical novel I'm currently writing (set around 500) I'm exploring the Persephone/Esyllt/Hel relationship.