(Untitled)

[liptonrm]

I've been sitting on this bit of meta for quite a while and now seems like as good as any time to finally put my words down into some sort of physical form. Enjoy.

Comments

[hiyacynth]

Lol, okay, this is what I was trying to say way back when "No Exit" aired and the debate was first opened. And this is why I suck at meta and debate in general--can't synthesize my arguments to save my butt. You, on the other hand, can present it, back it up, and summarize it neatly.

So, for the record: I completely agree. :-) And nicely argued, counselor.

[liptonrm]

Well, you also don't have the advantage of talking about this all the freaking time with certain similarly obsessive personalities. I think Adie's going to shoot me if I ever bring this topic up ever again. ;-)

And thank you. Let us only hope that I'll be able to transplant this skill from fandom to my legal career.

[dotfic]

This is so interesting!

I think I've never been overly attached to the idea that Dean=Mulder, just to the idea that it's so logical Dean would see himself as Mulder (the archetypal hero figure) because Dean revels in certain heroic traits, enjoys it, cultivates the door-kicking heroic facade even if he doesn't demand to be called a hero.

Sam and Mulder occupy the same position in their respective stories. They are the driving forces, the seekers, the Campbellian questers who are driven down a specific heroic path.Technically, this is true, but I think Dean has a larger hero role in his own right than Scully does. Not that TXF never gave her a unique arc or quests for herself, but Mulder had his crusade, and Scully followed Mulder following his crusade. Dean has his own crusade, and a lot of father issues. Sam may be more modelled after the Campbellian stages of the hero quest, but Dean goes through some of the same stages. Maybe Scully does too. But I feel like Scully was carried along on the coattails of Mulder's quest in ways Dean

[liptonrm]

just to the idea that it's so logical Dean would see himself as Mulder (the archetypal hero figure) because Dean revels in certain heroic traits, enjoys it, cultivates the door-kicking heroic facade even if he doesn't demand to be called a hero.

Oh, absolutely. Dean definitely sees himself as The Hero of the piece. What's funny is that Mulder isn't the sort of hero that Dean would pattern himself after. He's way too emo and disturbed. Though he totally feels for the guy over that whole 'my little sibling was stolen from me' deal.

but I think Dean has a larger hero role in his own right than Scully does. Not that TXF never gave her a unique arc or quests for herself, but Mulder had his crusade, and Scully followed Mulder following his crusade.I did think of this while I was putting everything into some coherent order. It really does benefit Dean as a character to be a brother rather then an FBI partner because for as much as they did to entangle Scully in the conspiracy everything always happened because of Mulder

[_sapphiredreams]

Very interesting and well said.

[liptonrm]

Thank you! It's nice to know that my crazy thoughts are interesting to the portion of the population who isn't me. =D

[vee_fic]

Overall, I'd agree that generally speaking, Sam was created as the Mulder character, while Dean was created as the foil.

But this does not answer the larger question: if Dean is Han Solo, and Dean is Scully, does that mean Scully is Han Solo??

[liptonrm]

But this does not answer the larger question: if Dean is Han Solo, and Dean is Scully, does that mean Scully is Han Solo??

Absolutely! Which kind of makes Mulder her Chewbacca (ok, ok, fine, Mulder can be Luke, whatever;-).

Wow, this all reminds me of a crossover I read way back in the day. Fandom really is one big circle. =D

[lunardreamed]

I agree. Besides, you can't use Dean's analogy of Sam as Scully. That wasn't a well thought out comparison, it was Dean teasing Sam. And Hendrickson's analogy of Sam as Bonnie to Dean's Clyde is based on a faulty understanding of the family and their crimes, and clearly no more correct.

[liptonrm]

Besides, you can't use Dean's analogy of Sam as Scully. That wasn't a well thought out comparison, it was Dean teasing Sam.

Certainly. That's what made Sam's face even funnier in that scene. Every time I see it I can imagine him thinking, 'No, Dean, I've put a lot of thought into this and you're Scully.' but saying stuff like that out loud would only encourage Dean.

And you can't let a good red-headed woman crack go to waste. ;-)