OLD FRENCH: moysne/moisne and aulP

Oct 04, 2015 18:11

Since I can't find it in any Old French dictionary that is available to me, and it's driving me nuts, I decided to post here in hopes that someone would know the meaning of the word "moysne"/"moisne" and the word that looks like "aulP" (the second in the first row, then again in the second row, and more), but maybe I'm not able to decipher it ( Read more... )

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Comments 8

whswhs October 4 2015, 16:48:26 UTC
François Villon's best known ballade, the one with the refrain Mais ou sont les neiges d'antan?, has the phrase et puis moyne, about Abelard, which means "and then [made a] monk." It would be plausible for moysne/moisne to be an earlier form of moyne.

Are you sure that's a P? It looks as if it might be a slightly fancy t, making the word ault. Would that make sense?

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orange_fell October 4 2015, 16:58:48 UTC
Perhaps it's a g and not a long s? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/moingne#Old_French

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orpheus_samhain October 4 2015, 22:11:55 UTC
That would be awesome, but I can't tell a difference between this supposed 'g' and 't' I'm sure of.

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orpheus_samhain October 4 2015, 22:10:53 UTC
Thank you. Yes, that P seems to be a 't'. 'Ault' can be a form of 'autre' or 'le'. I assume it's autre here, although I'm not able to read it yet.

Monk seems plausible in this context, but I haven't found that variation with 's' inside. With 'g' yes, but not with 's'.

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simlili October 4 2015, 18:43:10 UTC
Moysnes is moines (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/moyne#Middle_French)

The other I also read as ault. Look at the mlt that can be seen several times (ault prescha mlt, line 1 or end of line 2: admounesta mlt), the lt is written the same, looking almost like a P. Mlt is a short form of moult it seems.

Aul is a form of el (http://micmap.org/dicfro/search/dictionnaire-godefroy/ault) which is a form of autre (http://micmap.org/dicfro/search/dictionnaire-godefroy/el.) Could ault be another aul maybe.

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orpheus_samhain October 4 2015, 22:14:17 UTC
But where that 's' comes from and why can't I find this version anywhere?

Yes, this seems to be ault. Thank you!

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simlili October 4 2015, 22:40:33 UTC
Herehttp://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/dmf/MOINE there is a version with an -s (moisne, though, not moysne).

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orpheus_samhain October 4 2015, 22:55:23 UTC
Thank you!

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