"Doctor" and "baby" without noun markers

[dieastra]

Hi, I'm from Germany and I am wondering about something that I recently repeatedly encounter in the British TV series "Call the midwife" (which is set in London in the 1950s if that is important

Comments

[lied_ohne_worte]

"Die Tochter"/"Die Frau" can exist in German too though. Not sure if it's regional, but my father occasionally says "Die Tochter" when talking about me to others, which generally makes my mother ballistic. (My father doesn't intend or say it in any even slightly derogatory way; I've no idea where it comes from.)

[dieastra]

I seriously never heard that before! I wonder what your father would do if he had more than one daugther? How to distinguish?

In Saxony/former Eastern Germany we say "die" or "der" added to the name, like "der Robert" but my aunt from Western Germany up in the North would just use the name without it. So yeah, there are regional differences.

[germankitty]

Yoou should go to the Saarland; my relatives there regularly drive me up the wall by using "das" with names. "Das Marie kommt zum Essen" or "Das Klaus ist nicht hier". I know it's dialect, but still ...! *headdesk*

(For te record, I sometimes refer to my son as "das Kind"; jokingly, of course and to piss him off just a little; mother's prerogative!

[anicca_anicca2]

"Das Marie", or more probably "es Marie", yes. Same in pfälzisch, which is my mother tongue. "es Pederle*, yes. "De Klaus" though. I'd say if somebody said "das Klaus" it would be for humorous effect.

[antrazi]

Even in Germany it depends in the area. Living in Cologne (both with or without dialect) using or dropping the der/die can change the meaning slightly. It even depends on which article. In Kölsch a female person can either be adressed with the de or the dat, or the high german die, and it's nicer to be adressed with the dat.

[dieastra]

Heh, the "de" you have in common with us Saxons ;) (I'm in Dresden). "Dat" sounds very endearing indeed. I'm a Wise Guys fan and also my co-worker is originally from Cologne, so I know the sound a bit and I love it. I love dialects in general. It's sad that so many people nowadays are ashamed of them and don't use them anymore.

[antrazi]

It's not only the sound, when somebody speaks the dialect and changes to use the die, it's normally done for the meaning. Like somebody who's feeling that she's better than everybody else. Using dat is either neutral or positive

[mushroomesque]

There's also "The Mrs," as in "I'll have to check what the Mrs. thinks."

[arrowwhiskers]

I've heard "the Mrs." also--and I don't think that "the wife" sounds particularly insulting to my ears, if it's said playfully. Like: "I've gotta head out, I wanna get some flowers for the wife on the way home" or something. Is it really sexist? I've heard similar things for all sorts of relationships...the sister, the boyfriend, etc, I always just thought it was a lighthearted thing. Hunh.

[piperki]

It was once degrading and is now sort of hipster humor.

[dieastra]

Thank you, I'm putting it on the list!

[fencer_x]

Using "baby" without an article sounds terribly old-fashioned to my American ears; it sounds like something right out of a lullaby--"And down will come baby, cradle and all".

[dieastra]

Right! I think this was sung in a movie I watched not too long ago and I did wonder about it back then as well!
The others above have said that it is very british and very old, so not in use anymore. But still fascinating to learn about.

[rirakkumiru]

I was thinking the same! Lol

[houseboatonstyx]

It's really odd, isn't it. It seems to begin with a situation where there can really only be one filling that role (or one at a time), and it is the job being spoken of, not the person. But then the title/job is capitalized and spoken as though it were a person.

Or the reverse: speaking of a particular woman as 'the wife'.

But jobs that would seem parallel to doctor, such as ship captain or movie director, don't get that treatment. Maybe it only occurs in contexts of nuturing, dependency? Where the person hearing it (patient or child) dare not object?

[biascut]

Teacher might. It is quite infantilising to the people you're speaking to, and that used to be very much the way nurses were trained to address people. It's very unfashionable now.

[houseboatonstyx]

Teacher, yes, but I think it would be a teacher of very young children.

Someone mentioned athletes saying 'Coach', but I think that still might have the dependency/infantilizing relation to some extent, expecially with a student athletic team.