'Balancing cynicism' rant

[limyaael]

This is not, specifically, against cynicism in fantasy novels. I love cynicism in fantasy novels, provided that the character is expressing it in such a way that it fits the story, and not just because the author thinks it’s Cool. However, as the dominant tone of a story, it can become just as nauseating as a fantasy where the dominant tone is

Comments

[limyaael]

*grin* Vimes is the character who convinced me that cynicism doesn't automatically equal sitting around and griping about the world. Of course, it also helps that he's a very angry character.

[limyaael]

He's like Vimes in that he arranges the world how he wants, though. "No one else is going to do it right and sensibly, so I might as well."

[dsgood]

According to some sources, Dorothy Parker didn't come up with that line. They were playing what's usually a girls' game of mock politeness, and used fairly standard lines.

[limyaael]

*shrug* Maybe. She wrote enough other stuff that she can still serve as a good example.

[luna_manar]

This rant could not have been more perfectly timed. Thank you. ^_^

[limyaael]

*grin* I wondered what your reaction would be. Glad that it worked out instead of being overkill.

[luna_manar]

Yipe, you saw my little temper-tantrum on cynicism, didn't you? XP

[goblin_11]

Althpugh on the surface all of these make sense, I have never encountered books where I thought the cynism was overdone- to the point that I was surprised to even see this rant come up. So, I am curious- who or what books were the causes for this rant?

[limyaael]

For me? Partly China Mieville, and partly Steph Swainston. I started with Perdido Street Station, and got bored with it because while the characters were interesting, Mieville seemed much more interested in describing the ugliness of everything than in focusing on them. There was no sense that New Crobuzon, his city, was made the ugly way it is by extenuating circumstances; the idea seems to be that any city using that kind of magic would be grotesque, which is something I don't like. I tend to think the fault's not in the magic, but in the characters.

And The Year of Our War is so cynical I want to smack someone. I can't care about anybody. So those two books are currently sitting on the shelf, and I am glaring at them.

[evilprodigy]

Very good topic to rant on. I've seen far too much 'fashionable cynicism' in writing, too - generally amateur fantasy writers who treat cynical characters as the literary equivalents of writing horrible angsty poetry all the time and talking about how society doesn't understand them. :P Too often I've seen characters that are supposed to be world-weary and cynical act like petulant teenagers who were upset once and have decided that's the end of the world.

Have to second the mention of Vimes - fantastic cynical character. But I'm biased towards the man in general.

[limyaael]

Exactly. I think a lot of people don't know the difference between world-weary and petulant. Being extremely, extremely tired of seeing bad things happen around you, and disgusted with the stupidity/lack of morals/hot-headedness/whatever that causes them is very different from being frustrated by one person or set of people.

[venusrain]

*suddenly feels fear of being mentally WAY too-damn-old*