On mage heroes

[limyaael]

I resent the primacy of mage and fighter heroes in fantasy, since I think it’s a) harder to do original things with them by now, b) too convenient that every single person who matters in a fantasy world is an astounding mage or an excellent fighter, and c) the writer tends to make them superpowered. However, I’ve already done rants on different

Comments

[starfishofelves]

Thank you for this rant! I'll direct a friend toward it, because he seems to have a bit of a thing for mages.

1) Omg Rincewind yay.

6) YES! I despise it when people hate characters because they aren't incredibly powerful. I know people who could care less about characterization as long as the character can kick arse through magic. I also want to give said people a good sharp kick.

[maureenlycaon]

1.) Or Schmendrick? (The Last Unicorn)

6.) When I read battle sequences with characters like those, I always feel like I'm in a computer or video game. That's really a much better format for people who want to obsess about whiz-bang attack spells and superpowered characters than fantasy fiction.

[vulgarweed]

Schmendrick, yes! The original? Or just the best-done for a long, long time? (The "Gandalf" principle applies, I think. Also what Peter S. Beagle does is a lot harder than it looks; that's why he's so great.)

[princesselwen]

I quite liked Schemendrick. He was so funny.
Schemendrick: I am a channel, I am a messenger! I am--
Molly Grue: You are an idiot!

[auturgist]

Thief power! *topples podium with a kick* = P

[sabotabby]

I have a thief as a major character. (He becomes embroiled in teh quest because he steals the wrong bauble off the wrong guy.) I would so love to see a rant on thieves.

[limyaael]

Rants on thieves and assassins are good ideas. I'll do them after the fighter rant.

[ex_auturgist509]

Why does Standard Fantasy Mage not ever open his pack and find his book a soggy mess? Why don’t his pouches, which are usually leather, ever split open, or for that matter get tugged off in the current? How can he swim while clutching the staff?

Now, it’s possible that the mage has enacted spells to protect them. The thing is, these spells need to be mentioned, and some detail needs to be given. Also, remember that a spell that you create specifically to protect that book or those spell components for one reason won’t work for others. If the mage has a waterproofing spell on his book, it won’t protect it if it’s thrown into the fire. Yes, you could create a “general damage spell,” but this really is cheating if you don’t mention it until after the river. Of course, you could always go your merry way and forget about it entirely, but I wouldn’t recommend it.No magic pouch is worth its weight in manure if it's not magically sealed against water and protected against elements. I think mentioning all the wards on something that exists

[cartesiandaemon]

Wards? If you've defined your magic system, yes, fine. But with most authors the pouches would be the first place you'd meet them, so they'd better get explained. And have a good reason why you can enchant a backpack against harm, but not a helmet, or whatever.

[limyaael]

No magic pouch is worth its weight in manure if it's not magically sealed against water and protected against elements. I think mentioning all the wards on something that exists only to carry stuff is probably unnecessary. In a lot of cases, I think it is safe to assume the majority of mages being formally mentored will be supplied with such mundane magic items if/when necessary.

As cartesiandemon said, that only works if you have wards in your magical system. And even a fleeting mention is better than assuming that, "Well, magic must have protected them!" The assumption of magic is annoying, because it leads to the author getting careless, and it provides for stupid and annoying plot holes. "He can ward his pouches against getting damaged by water, but not stolen? Um, why?"

As for the fighters, one of the things I intend to bring up in the rant on them is: Hello, range weapons.

[tamtrible]

I don't necessarily see that as a plot hole. Wards against theft require intent, and/or require the pouch to react to something outside itself. Wards against water, however, only require the pouch to protect its own physical integrity, in a fairly specific/limited way.

[luna_manar]

It occurs to me that one of the best ways to make a character (mage or otherwise) "kickass" is for him/her to not have to be kickass, if that makes any sense. Anyone can play Dragonball Z with their characters, particularly fighters and mages (who, in many ways, fall into the same general "power" category when you think about it). But just because someone has a higher power level or intellect than everyone else doesn't mean they will necessarily be all-powerful when pitted against any given opponent. Circumstances are everything. All it takes is some random loser with timing and maybe a little luck to hit the almighty mage/warrior's weakpoint to take him down--so Munchkinism is far from the only way to turn a character into a badass. Power doesn't mean jack

[limyaael]

But just because someone has a higher power level or intellect than everyone else doesn't mean they will necessarily be all-powerful when pitted against any given opponent. Circumstances are everything. All it takes is some random loser with timing and maybe a little luck to hit the almighty mage/warrior's weakpoint to take him down--so Munchkinism is far from the only way to turn a character into a badass. Power doesn't mean jack.

See, that's my problem with a mage herione who is "the most powerful mage ever" like Jaenelle in Anne Bishop's Black Jewels books. No single opponent can hurt her, and neither can armies of opponents. No one is able to outsmart her. Her enemies can catch her in a few tricks, but they're only that- tricks. She always manages to escape. She can blot out the fucking sun. A character like that is boring to read about.

No character should depend solely on his or her super powers for depth. Characters who do cease to be people and become, instead, statistics and technical schematics.Exactly. For some people,

[luna_manar]

Why do mages have to be bitter or tormented, though? I don't think that's an essential part of any fantasy mage character, certainly not the way using magic is. I included it under "clumsy" just because the clumsy characters usually do get teased and sniffle about it, but it's entirely possible that the people who grow up to be mages could have been the bullies as children, or the ones too scary to touch, or the observing sycophants on the sidelines. There's no need for a mage to be bitter.

They certainly do not have to. But I view that as an acceptable stereotype because it is understandable that many mages become mages because they cannot do anything else and be respected for their power. Which leads into why bitter mages are also often power-hungry--psychologically, there is a stigma of powerlessness that persists. If a person was teased for being a weakling as a child, it stands to reason that person will want to prove themselves in control of their lives--and perhaps others', as well--by gaining power. Hence, the reason becoming

[robling_t]

I think a lot of mage characters relate with the "nerd" subculture in our own world

ROFL, because mine are very explicitly geeks! (In the "real world" they'd be the pasty-faced troll in the IT department who doesn't seem to own any shirts that didn't come from an electronics tradeshow and barely seems to speak the same language as the normals who occasionally have to deal with him.) The fun one can have with a bunch of intelligent but unsocialized people who really do have the power to kill you with a flick of their fingers and some arcane words... :)

ramble ramble ramble

[kadaria]

>6) No more most powerful mages.I really need to keep this one in mind because a lot of chars I make and up being powerful in some way or another. However, I like keep them interesting with flaws or weaknesses that slow up their "most powerfulness

Re: ramble ramble ramble

[limyaael]

I really should write about normal, boring people more often ;)

See, I don't think normal people have to be boring. One of the things that hurts authors writing about superpowered characters is that so much development and time goes to the superpower, and not enough to what these people would be like without it. Take away the power, and the character is permanently changed. With an "ordinary, boring person" the author has to work more on developing traits like courage, cowardice, likes and dislikes, mental stability, reactions to other people, and so on. With a superpowered character, there's always the temptation to link all traits to that magic: "My character must have a hot temper because she's a fire mage."

Re: ramble ramble ramble

[kadaria]

>My character must have a hot temper because she's a fire mage.<
I hate things like that...so cliched.

And no, normal people can be just as cool as super saiy...I mean people. I actually do have normal characters who use things like 'common sense' to triumph.
The 'boring' was added by my sarcastic edge, not to be offensive to normal characters :)

Re: ramble ramble ramble

[kadaria]

I have one character who came into existence with nothing to her name but "the best mind mage ever". However, she was a disturbed teenager hearing "voices" when she got discovered by people who desperately needed her magic in a war.

Now, half the people who know about her want to manipulate and control her, the other half wants to kill her, she's fighting a war that's not hers, and gets in a habit of steamrolling over every opposition.

She's fun to write...

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