Quick definition of a bildungsroman, courtesy of dictionary.com: A novel whose principal subject is the moral, psychological, and intellectual development of a usually youthful main character
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*grin* I've heard some people say that she actually doesn't do enough with the angst in her stories- that her characters should have suffered far more than they do.
...Which might be part of your point, come to think of it.
oddly enough it wasn't the slow start in the dragonbone chair that bogged me down - it was halfway thru the stone of farewell when i gave up. even tho things were happening! but i also like the world-building and architectural posts....
During the section in which Simon is wandering around lost and hungry in the snow? Yes, I nearly put the book down then, too. I think it was only the Sithi who saved it for me, and that's because they were elf-like. I really, really adore fascinating elf-like people.
It's odd, really, but I've never liked anything he's done as well as the trilogy (and towards the end he makes events take such a stereotypical turn that it leaves a sour taste in my mouth). Well, there was the short novel he wrote for the anthology Legends, "The Burning Man," but that was set in the same world as the trilogy and really dark and spooky. I haven't managed to like his science fiction quartet, and War of the Flowers was only okay, though it had a neat world setup.
Give me an urban fantasy that knows what it's doing please?
Done and done. Charles de Lint. Any of his books, but I particularly reccommend Onion Girl, which manages to be a novel and a collection of short stories in one. Go and read, grasshopper. :)
except you kind of have to be familiar with his characters for Onion Girl to have the resonance it should, I suspect.
Not saying I don't love him to bits. Just don't start with that one. I recommend Someplace to be Flying, probably because I love the Crow Girls to little tiny pieces.
Well, my characters feel pain when they're hurt, but when a character spends a lot of time dwelling on their pain, it just makes me think that they need medication.
And I take medication so as not to have to do that myself, and if I'm not going to ruminate for hours and hours on everything that happened to me before I was 20 I'm really not going to pay to watch someone else do it.
I have noticed that certain of the younger audiences like angst. Lackwit sells like hotcakes to twelve-year-olds, but most of the younger people I'm friends with on line get over it by the time they're 15-16. I think that being OMG speshul and having everyone treat you like khrappe is an adolescent fantasy, basically, but if the point of your book is that your character's going to grow up then letting them stay in this mental state rather defeats your purpose--if you feel like that much past the age of 19, you are depressed, it's not normal, go talk to someone and get therapy and/or drugs
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And I think I just found the answer to a question I've been deathly afraid of asking you. *hugs* Thank you!
Which leaves me with another question, really. How do you make sure that your adolescent actually STAYS mature and responsible? My main character... refuses... to grow up. She is perfectly capable of being an adult, when there is no other choice.
I personally love playing with #6. It's so much fun to break down a set belief.
Meh... I've always been curious as to whether you'd end up classifying her as an MS. I love and hate that effect your rants can have on my writing. Hate it, because it makes me doubt my characters. Love it, because that doubt in turn makes me think about them and improve.
The rant on the deus ex machina, for example, made me realise just how many misconceptions dersaee really have about some aspects that are an integrated part of their culture. Gotta love century-old beliefs you can happily break-down into being nothing more than a belief or a myth. ^-^
I don't think a character has to stay mature all the time. I've read plenty of stories where the character makes one good decision and then lapses back into whining for a little while. At the end of the book or series, however, I think she should have changed for good.
It's kind of an artificial solution, but if you're worried you're not writing the character as appropriately mature, go back and study the scenes where she talks to other people or makes decisions. If you realize you're repeating the same patterns of words and behavior over and over, consciously write something different the next time. Sometimes I think authors don't realize just how repetitive and unchanging their protagonists sound.
At the end of the book or series, however, I think she should have changed for good.
By the end of the book... I think she doesn't have too much of a choice. I think, for now, the others are letting her get away with it. Somewhere along the line, I'll get some of that sense to stick, though I doubt she'll ever grow up completely. :/
If you realize you're repeating the same patterns of words and behavior over and over, consciously write something different the next time.
That might be a good idea even if you don't realize it, actually. I'll remember it for when I rewrite (well, and everything I don't rewrite). Right now, I place a higher value in actually finishing the tale.
I guess she might have some leeway with the maturity though. It'll all work out. She's going to grow up somewhere along the line even if I have to take control of that story back and force her.
If other people are letting her get away with it, the way to change her behaviour, should you want to do that, is to have them stop. Because no matter how special a person is, the people around them know that they put on their britches one leg at a time, and eventually, someone's going to say to themselves, "I don't care if Mikaija is the son of the Taschin and the Emperor's Consort and one of Ataniell's Chosen, it's not going to help save the Empire if I let him annoy me so much that I lose it and strangle him in his sleep before we reach the Springs of Korravai."
Most people have only so much tolerance for whining and self-indulgent angst. If a character in something I'm writing has a propensity for same despite my best efforts, I'll usually allow the character s/he most annoys to give him or her the much-needed kick in the arse when it gets to that point.
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...Which might be part of your point, come to think of it.
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Done and done. Charles de Lint. Any of his books, but I particularly reccommend Onion Girl, which manages to be a novel and a collection of short stories in one. Go and read, grasshopper. :)
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Not saying I don't love him to bits. Just don't start with that one. I recommend Someplace to be Flying, probably because I love the Crow Girls to little tiny pieces.
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God I love your lists. :)
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I wish more people felt as you do about 4. There's no option to skip over it, most of the time.
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And I take medication so as not to have to do that myself, and if I'm not going to ruminate for hours and hours on everything that happened to me before I was 20 I'm really not going to pay to watch someone else do it.
I have noticed that certain of the younger audiences like angst. Lackwit sells like hotcakes to twelve-year-olds, but most of the younger people I'm friends with on line get over it by the time they're 15-16. I think that being OMG speshul and having everyone treat you like khrappe is an adolescent fantasy, basically, but if the point of your book is that your character's going to grow up then letting them stay in this mental state rather defeats your purpose--if you feel like that much past the age of 19, you are depressed, it's not normal, go talk to someone and get therapy and/or drugs ( ... )
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Which leaves me with another question, really. How do you make sure that your adolescent actually STAYS mature and responsible? My main character... refuses... to grow up. She is perfectly capable of being an adult, when there is no other choice.
I personally love playing with #6. It's so much fun to break down a set belief.
Meh... I've always been curious as to whether you'd end up classifying her as an MS. I love and hate that effect your rants can have on my writing. Hate it, because it makes me doubt my characters. Love it, because that doubt in turn makes me think about them and improve.
The rant on the deus ex machina, for example, made me realise just how many misconceptions dersaee really have about some aspects that are an integrated part of their culture. Gotta love century-old beliefs you can happily break-down into being nothing more than a belief or a myth. ^-^
Reply
It's kind of an artificial solution, but if you're worried you're not writing the character as appropriately mature, go back and study the scenes where she talks to other people or makes decisions. If you realize you're repeating the same patterns of words and behavior over and over, consciously write something different the next time. Sometimes I think authors don't realize just how repetitive and unchanging their protagonists sound.
Reply
By the end of the book... I think she doesn't have too much of a choice. I think, for now, the others are letting her get away with it. Somewhere along the line, I'll get some of that sense to stick, though I doubt she'll ever grow up completely. :/
If you realize you're repeating the same patterns of words and behavior over and over, consciously write something different the next time.
That might be a good idea even if you don't realize it, actually. I'll remember it for when I rewrite (well, and everything I don't rewrite). Right now, I place a higher value in actually finishing the tale.
I guess she might have some leeway with the maturity though. It'll all work out. She's going to grow up somewhere along the line even if I have to take control of that story back and force her.
Reply
Most people have only so much tolerance for whining and self-indulgent angst. If a character in something I'm writing has a propensity for same despite my best efforts, I'll usually allow the character s/he most annoys to give him or her the much-needed kick in the arse when it gets to that point.
Reply
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