Grammar/spelling/punctuation part 1

[limyaael]

Well, everything except the paper and 1200 words on one of the stories is done, and that will work out, and I have two pages done on the paper so far.

(Translation: If I keep working, I'm going to go crazy).

So this, for right now.

Comments

[chiyo_no_saru]

I agree. I personally love grammar and think it's fun, but... I confess, I am most certainly in the minority when it comes to that. Granted, I have a very specific style of writing that I use - however, grammatically, it's correct. And the odds of someone - anyone - using bad grammar to "make a statement" is ridiculous; editors will laugh at you.

Besides, people who won't spell check a manuscript shouldn't even be submitting it. I highly doubt they'd check for topographical errors or such.

[limyaael]

I love grammar too. I honestly didn't realize for a long time that part of the reason I did well in Latin and Spanish was because I loved grammar, and would study it instead of whining about it.

Woe to the world when someone who whines about it decides to try writing. It isn't pretty.

[chiyo_no_saru]

Heh. Some people just don't like the picky stuff, but can tell when it's wrong and are willing to correct it - I don't mind that. Just the ones who think it's totally unnecessary.

[dreamsnake21]

they are making a statement... the statement is "i am an idiot" or possibly "i am lazy AND an idiot"... and it won't *just* be the editors laughing... personally, when people show me work with *particularly* bad grammar/spelling mistakes, i tend to laugh, and then show everyone around me. yes, i am mean.. but maybe they will think twice next time. (ok, ok, i only do that to people who are really really bad.. and mean themselves.. honest mistakes i am much nicer about...)

[lynnbodoni]

People type fast in chat (or in LJ comments). Some people use odd spellings, no capital letters, and so on as style markers. The Internet culture usually understands this and gives the writers quite a lot of leeway.

Emphasis on usually. In the message board that I help administrate, people who use net or 133+ 5933|< are quite likely to find themselves with a brand new asshole, if they don't shape up after a few polite hints. I'm the moderator for the forum called the BBQ Pit...so named because it's the place for flames.

[limyaael]

I'm always glad to hear about places like that. Judging from student papers and some of the stories I've seen on the Internet, a lof of people think everywhere is that permissive.

[klgaffney]

good gods yes--huge difference between lj and really-real world. my personal lj and my comments--lord, i couldn't care less. time is usually lacking and if it's an idea spew, forget it, however it comes out is however it comes out, and i don't even want to get started about that annoying lj version of spellcheck. *twitch*

my fic ljs are rough as hell, but capital letters, decent spelling, etc are the norm. much more care is taken with anything that goes from those ljs to a proper website, and typically there's some form of beta before it gets sent.

but how ignorant and/or arrogant must you be to turn something in to a professional without having someone (or preferably several someones) go over it with a fine-toothed comb? it just seems kinda disrespectful to me. not to mention, you're competing with god knows how many other people, so why wouldn't you put forth your very best effort? it only makes sense.

[limyaael]

but how ignorant and/or arrogant must you be to turn something in to a professional without having someone (or preferably several someones) go over it with a fine-toothed comb? it just seems kinda disrespectful to me. not to mention, you're competing with god knows how many other people, so why wouldn't you put forth your very best effort? it only makes sense.

Here, I think, sites like FF.net and FP.com havne't done anyone any favors. I've seen several teenage authors announce they were pulling down their- badly-spelled, ungrammatical, poorly-written- original work and submitting it for publication. Then they're bewildered when it comes back. "But I got good reviews on the Internet!" they wail.

If there were more critical reviewers than gushing praisers, I think there would be less of a problem.

Of course

[silverwerecat]

"But I got good reviews on the Internet!" they wail.

And most of those reviews were in equally bad, or worse, language.

Heck, most of the time I even spell-check the reviews I leave. It just takes a moment of cutting and pasting to a word document.

[limyaael]

The Elements of Style is great. I wish I could make all my students read it.

[teh_kittykat]

You don't sound bitter at all, but if you work at it you might reach vinegary perfection after too long. :3

[limyaael]

The horrifying thing is that (most of) my students who are non-native English speakers do better with the grammar and spelling than my students who are native English speakers. The only thing I can blame is a lack of reading, and maybe sometimes pronunciation influencing what gets on the page. That's the only reason for mixing up "they're/there/their," or using "a" for "I," as keeps happening with the papers I grade.

[silverwerecat]

The horrifying thing is that (most of) my students who are non-native English speakers do better with the grammar and spelling than my students who are native English speakers.

I hear you. I've been told numerous times that my writing it doesn't show that my native language is other that english. I cannot tell if this is true and I'm not even sure if this is a compliment anymore. *grin*

I cannot speak for all non-native English speakers, but for me this is an on-going learning process; one I try hard not to fail. Perhaps native English speakers don't see it that way.

Just my two cents.

[dglenn]

Several times now I've identified non-native speakers on the basis of unusually correct usage, in the absence of other clues. (But admittedly I'm not certain until I see additional evidence such as a non-native idiom; a few native speakers are that consistently correct.) Even non-native speakers who do "sound foreign" are often using grammatically correct forms, just not the particular correct forms that most native speakers would reach for first. (And when second-language mistakes appear, it's usually easy to tell them from mere carelessness or ignorance if one reads/listens long enough to note the patterns, and sometimes even possible to make a reasonable guess at the speaker's first language by observing the pattern of mistakes