Ragey rage

[lily_liedtome]

"I don't even think of you as black."

Oh? I don't even think of you as human. Wait, did I say that? So sorry, I meant FUCK YOU.

I'm not black, but it's an insert your oppressed social class here sort of situation - I don't think of you as gay-Mexican-disabled-female, etc.

In a conversation I had with my friend Andrea, on racism and the "colour-

Comments

[wishforhome]

It's so bizarre. It would be like, if someone was talking about me to somebody else and for some bizarre reason purposefully left out that I was trans, I'd be like, seriously, wtf. (Of course, there are trans people out there who would be horribly offended if someone just said "oh, btw, s/he is trans," but I'm out and I don't want people to be secretive about it.) On the other hand, I mean, I have friends who fit into minorities and when I'm talking them, I don't always mention their minority status, but I don't completely describe someone every time I mention them. On the other hand, if I was trying to tell you everything about insert-friend-here, I'd be an asshole if I decided that really, I shouldn't tell you he was gay

[lily_liedtome]

Gay people are gay. Black people are black. It's not a negative thing.

That's the best way to say it, I think. It's like -- If you were talking and said something like, "well my friend Sheila, who's black, and I went out the other night..." That's be just as strange and racist as describing Sheila to someone for three hours and never once mentioning that she was black -- or, and this I just love, describing how she looks and leaving out that pertinent piece of info -- which is ridiculous, but it's happened to people I know.

The trans thing -- I almost included it up there in my list of random minorities, but it's so. Some people are all for being described as trans, and being visible, and others would be offended, as you mentioned.

[lily_liedtome]

Yes, that's what I mean -- knowing and deliberately not mentioning it.

Well, the default assumption for people is Christian - they assume that the same way they assume everyone is straight until proven otherwise, and that's offensive on it's own, even if your Judaism isn't a crucial descriptor.

[violin_road]

I would be totally offended if someone failed to describe me as Jewish, although that's probably because, while I do not actually wear a sign, I do mention it about every twelve seconds.

Unless of course they just described me as "Beckah: kinda hot." That would be ok.

[lily_liedtome]

Heh. In responding to her comment I wrote and then erased a whole paragraph about my friend, Jana, who mentions that she's Jewish constantly and would be horribly offended if you failed to mention it when describing her. :D

[lily_liedtome]

Sure, sometimes that is a way of saying "you aren't so different..." but I think often it is saying "I don't think of you as (insert minority here)." As in -- you're not like the rest of them, you're one of us. A sentiment that indicates to those minorities that if they want to be accepted by the normative society then they had better disclaim their own culture and assimilate.

And, just. NO. I'm, not going to conform to some arbitrary norm, and I'm not going to abandon my community for people who want me to give up what I am (or reject it, in the case of race - take on the "right" behaviours of whites).

I'd like to address the second part of your comment - the assertion that minorities are responsible for teaching the majority the right way to act - but there are a few sources that I'd like to find before I try to explain my objection to that line of reasoning. I'll get back to you on it, though.

[fourfreedoms]

the thing is that people are kind of taught that they shouldn't differentiate, and that they shouldn't use race as a descriptor. My friend Meredith is black, and yeah, it drives her up the wall that people will describe other people to her and not say black, but it's only because they're trying to be politically correct.

[moondarri]

i all agree with you on this, but. my best friend in the world? sometimes i really am like, huh, i don't even think of you as black. because she's just her. i kind of forget she's even, like, a girl or something. she's just my bestfriend laura who's kind of weird. so when i remember that she is black, it's just -- yeah. um, so what i mean is, i don't think it's a bad thing to forget someone's race, because it shouldn't matter too much what they are, unless it's a very important part of their identity that they choose to embrace & put forward. just like you being a feminist is something you choose to emphasise, & you want people to remember that. like, my bestfriend, she's just. i guess if i picked a word to describe her, it'd just be strange. but awesome. ;;^____^