Abayance

[lillibet]

This column in the LA Times details some of the experiences one of their reporters had while covering stories in Saudi Arabia. I've read a couple of books by women with similar stories to tell, but this is a nicely written piece.

She writes:
To me, the abaya implied that a woman's body is a distraction and an interruption, a thing that must be

Comments

sorry, this stuff makes me ranty

[hammercock]

But I do find it hard not to take the decision to cover women's bodies to a greater degree than men's bodies as an accusation.Indeed. What makes me angry about this is that societies almost always punish women for being what (most) men find attractive, without really requiring men to bloody well control themselves like the adults they ought to be. Streets not safe for women? Put them under curfew and blame them for being in the wrong place and wearing the wrong attire; after all, it's not as if we can expect men who think they're so much better than women to actually exhibit self-control, right? No one ever turns around and makes any kind of serious proposal that since the men are causing these problems, they ought to be the ones under watch and curfew so that women can walk around in safety, whereas many societies around the world think it's perfectly fine to infantilize women and curtail their activities

Re: sorry, this stuff makes me ranty

[lillibet]

Amen, sister.

But the thing is, in our society, there is at least some level at which it is the women's choice, ostensibly. And that's where my position comes a-cropper.

Re: sorry, this stuff makes me ranty

[bedfull_o_books]

Yeah. That. Thanks for saving me the rant.

[orbitalmechanic]

Have I already told you about the article I read on Islamic women who chose to wear the veil because it gave them social sanction to take much more freedom? A woman from a conservative family, for instance, who got to go to college because "she's a good girl." Some of those women were getting to do things that women never did, and then ran into white Western feminists who told them that wearing the veil was anti-feminist. It's so hard to translate sometimes.

[lillibet]

I don't know if you've mentioned it and that's an interesting point. And how is it different from any girl gaining her parents' trust by not dressing in ways they disapprove of? But being "a good girl" is inherently anti-feminist, isn't it? Tricky, tricky.

[marmota]

I think it was Mark Twain (I'm too lazy to google for it at the moment) who said that clothes make the man as naked people have very little influence on society. However, the issue that comes into play here is "which society"? If I dress in a more managerial fashion for work, my bosses are happy but my coworkers look askance. Even more casual attire appropriate for work loses me cred if I also wear it to go hang out at Diesel after work.

In high school, I would dress one way leaving the house to keep my parents off my back, but ditch the button down shirt and slacks for jeans, concert T and army jacket at the first opportunity, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one then or now that had to appeal to differing sensibilities. When they overlap, compromises get made. *shrug*

[hammercock]

This is a good illustration of my contention that the world is set up so that women can never really win. It sucks. No matter where you go, what you do, what you say, what you wear, what you look like, how much you weigh, all that stuff...there is always someone out there waiting to judge you and find you wanting, and then happy to extrapolate that judgment to cover all women. Feh.

[kathrynt]

I agree, but at the same time, I have a different perspective, too. I'm a white Western girl, hardcore feminist, born and bred, but sometimes when I'm out in public and I want people to leave me alone, I cover part of my face

[kathrynt]

Absolutely.