More on Beauty and Value

[lhynard]

Now if beauty is what causes, "all at once, pain and longing and adoring," something isn't quite right, for I do not have any desire or longing for every work of art that I might find beautiful. But perhaps this is no conflict at all. Perhaps it is what is beautiful in the painting -- some abstract ideal -- that I long for, not the painting itself

Comments

[sadeyedartist]

One day we will discuss this. The idea of beauty as purely mathematical is what made Greek art so, well, predictable. I don't agree that harmony can be explained so easily. The two may correspond, but I don't find, for example, a symmetrical painting the most exciting kind. And I don't like the Parthonon (I think thats the one with all the pillars--as opposed to the Pantheon, which I always get confused) because, frankly, though impressively large, its boring. I've always been much more moved by the increadible moving northern artists, particularly the expressionists. (K knows my love for German expressionists.) I think God intends for there to be an element in beauty that cannot be EXPLAINED. Its like love in that way. A person cannot explain it. It often (OFTEN) defies logic (look at the cross. That was love, but it was not logical.) Its almost as if it relies on its own kind of "logic" which is logic of a different kind. A deeper kind. A less fathomable kind.

[sadeyedartist]

i also think that the "longing and adoring" (etc.) is not for the painting or work of art itself but for something else. I have, for example, been so moved by music before that I have wanted to tap into the source of that beauty itself, rather than that particular song alone. Its almost as if all true and moving beauty is part of a bigger stream. When we encounter this beauty, what we want is, not that small part of the stream, but the stream itself. Its just that that music or art or literature draws us TO that stream. (Or a piece of that stream.)

[bigmister]

Not only is beauty difficult to define (almost intangibly so), it's also somewhat gender-driven. I know that may sound categorical, but there is a difference, however slight that may be, between a man's view of beauty and that of a woman. Most men are typically sight-oriented, whereas most women are feelings/sense-oriented. We seem to notice different elements of a given subject with different purposes, different focal points. Still, even between those of the same gender we find differences of opinion about what is beautiful about a given object or person. Then there's such a thing as inner beauty, and that's the most precious art of all; for this is beauty that remains eternally gender-neutral, and has no place for deception and no need for external adornment (see 1 Peter 3:2-4)

[lhynard]

I am not so sure that there is a real difference. Certianly, the average man is more in tune with the visual than the other senses, but this is only a factor of how observant they are toward particular beauty, not if different beauty appeals to them once they are aware of it. I also think that what men might consider preferences are perhaps hard-wired in because of culture. If a man thinks he sees beauty in another man, he might be called homosexual. Women don't seem to have a problem recognizing another beautiful woman. If they do, it is also because of culture, which teaches them that men want a particular kind of woman, which is not necessarily even the case. So both men and women, I think, confuse beauty with what culture teaches them they should find appealing, but I think recognition of beauty is built in to us all somehow, men and women the same. Just as some people are better at recognizing patterns than others, however, I think some people are not as talented at recognizing beauty. Such people, I think, tend to find simpler

A really long post about beauty (and culture and teaching)

[sadeyedartist]

I disagree that all beauty is linked to culture. I think that bigmister's comment about beauty and gender is really interesting. I would like to think about that more

Re: A really long post about beauty (and culture and teaching)

[lhynard]

"If anything, cultural mandates probably keep people from thinking about beauty. Often, people will adopt what is SUPPOSED to be culturally acceptable, but this does not really come from them. For example, many girls obsess about their figures because of what females are SUPPOSED to look like. I have often heard girls compare themselves to a culturally idealized person, but I have rarely heard them express THEIR OWN ideas about beauty. It begs the question: do these girls really see fashion model A as pretty, or do they just adopt the standard, regardless of what they might otherwise think? If we are to have a true discussion about beauty as either individual or universal, we have to consider that maybe, beauty is not DEFINED by culture, but maybe culture GETS IN THE WAY of any true belief or discussion