More on How to Decide What People in a Culture Should Know

[lhynard]

Last week was crazy busy. I had started posting this, but it included another poll on your opinions that got far too long.

My last public entry did not really trigger much debate on this actual question. I think the science poll distracted everyone (except for jeltzzRather than trying to poll you on each and every possible topic one could teach to those

Comments

[themadcow]

Math: Is calculus compulsory now? I graduated from high school 11 years ago and subsequently attended a state university. I took calc in high school as well as college but only because I chose to in the former case and my degree required advanced mathematical skills in the latter. I'm with you here, though, for the most part. I do, however, think that educated people should understand how calculus works even if they do not understand how to work calculus (if that makes sense). Many scientific principles--especially in the physical sciences--require at least a rudimentary understanding of calculus to completely grasp. I don't believe that all students should have to be able to derive and integrate complex functions, but they should understand what derivation and integration mean in a practical sense

[lhynard]

Is calculus compulsory now?

No. I took it in high school, but it's not required. I'm just being hypothetical, in general, about what should and shouldn't be.

You make good points about people understanding "how", but I'm not sure if that's practically possible. Maybe it is; I'm not sure.

If you were to tray an explain derivatives to someone as an overview, how would you personally do it?

[themadcow]

The best way I know to explain derivatives in a practical sense is to show how we calculate area under a curve (be it a real-world curve or a mathematical one). We could show how we can approximate the curved area with a number of rectangles with a given width. Obviously, the more rectangles we use--and thus the shorter their widths--the closer to the actual value we get. Therefore, if we could somehow use an incredibly high number of rectangles (such that their width approaches zero) we could get a highly accurate idea of the area under that curve.

One might also be able to use real-world examples of Newton's Laws, but I haven't given much thought to that.

[jeltzz]

Math - I did our highest level of Math at High School. And now I do very little complex math at all. The question is, was I better off doing Math to such a high level for a general 'thinking training effect', or would I have been better served investing greater time in other subjects

[lhynard]

The question is, was I better off doing Math to such a high level for a general 'thinking training effect', or would I have been better served investing greater time in other subjects?

It's a hard question. I hear the argument used for why pre-med students are required to learn organic chemisty being that it helps them to problem solve diseases from symptoms. But I don't see how alternative methods of teaching could instill this in them. (As it is, they all memorize instead of problem-solve.)

I do think it is of public benefit for the majority of a population to be multilingual.

Why so?

I have mixed feelings on the issue. If people are going to master a language, better to do so when young. But how do we decide which ones to teach?

Is it really a benefit to someone to be multilingual who does not interact with other cultures? Or is it inherently good to have multiple languages so as to have multiple ways of thinking?

I think the real problem is that students can get through to the end of secondary schooling and not achieve

[jeltzz]

I think it's still of benefit for someone to be multilingual even if they do not interact with other cultures, though the reasons are more ancillary: generally speaking language study seems to help overall intellectual development in childhood, it also tends to produce cultural awareness (since culture and language are intertwined). I suspect that raising monolinguals with the expectation of monoculture is a good way to inculcate xenophobia. Teaching a second language may just be the thing that acts as a catalyst for people to interact with other cultures.

As for the issue of which languages, I take it a society weighs it up by what is in its overall interests. Questions like: who are our neighbours, who do we interact with, what's important to international relations, are certain languages of heritage importance, are there minority languages we should be teaching.

[lhynard]

When I was in private grade school, they tried to teach us Spanish. I hated it. I thought it was stupid that we had to learn another language I thought I would never need to use. (This was Maine; learning French Canadian would have made a lot more sense.) I also thought the method used was retarded. They were teaching vocabulary without explaining grammar, so we couldn't properly use the words for colors and foods we were learning. (I didn't quite grasp this then, but it bothered me still

[ext_60155]

When I was in junior high and high school, we didn't have "history," we had "social studies." Maybe this is a more appropriate thing for everyone to learn

[lhynard]

Yeah, social studies is probably a better subject.

I completely forgot about gym and health. I've got mixed feelings about that one as well. The things you mention are great in theory. Sadly, in practice, I think it rarely turns out that way.

I think I might be all for gym class if it were not graded.

[G]ym class teaches you how to work with unreasonable people to achieve meaningless goals. Unfortunately, this is an important life skill.

heh

[thefaeway]

Math:

Simple addition, subtraction, multiplication and division should be necessary. These should be the only focus in High School, but it should be drilled into students who may find themselves without a calculator.

LanguageOur country already fails at teaching our own language. I think English should be heavily enforced (in lieu of Algebra, Geometry, etc, in jr & high schools). I also believe that from 1st or 2nd grade the local flavor language should be required, with an eventual proficiency for students who grew up with that local flavor language. In places where there is no 'local flavor' language, there should be an option for either Spanish or for a good "Business Language" such as Japanese. High school graduates should be near-fluent in the second language. I also believe that the current "college freshmen" courses in English should be required for the Jr. and Sr. year of High School rather than A.P. or Senior English. Those two classes should be Freshmen and Sophomore English. The 'local flavor' language may pose a

[lhynard]

Why do you think specialization is such a good thing?

[thefaeway]

There would be more people studying anything in particular, most like, since they would have more opportunity to do so. Theoretically this would allow more people to do any particular type of research, thus propelling our national levels of understanding to new heights

err..

pitfalls would include, of course, fewer people in "normal" industry, and more people vying for the few jobs available in some industries, especially considering the lack of funding for a great deal of projects already. Can't win them all.