September 11 -- Renamed?

[level_head]

On another LJ, there is a complaint about this date being called "Patriot Day". The writer was concerned about, among other things, the "loss of liberty" that followed (I disagree here -- LH), and points out that April 19th is already "commonly celebrated" as Patriots Day

Comments

[kelloggs2066]

I think attempting to rename September 11th, will prove ultimately futile.

I've rarely ever heard December 7th referred to as
"Pearl Harbor Day". It's always December 7th, 1941.

That said, I would be against attempting to rename it when "September 11th" already carries the intended meaning. To rename it will only serve to add confusion, and or water it down.

I'm reminded of a particular aircraft: The Me-109, which, throughout it's history was referred to as the Me-109 by the Allies, and the Luftwaffe. Recently some historians decided that it's original designation should have been the Bf-109. But, no one (except a few historians) know what Bf-109 means unless you show them a picture of the plane.

[level_head]

Some historians have become revisionist Messers. with history, including this Bf deal.

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[kelloggs2066]

I tend to put such Fokkers in the same category as the people who decided that Pluto is not a planet.

Me-109 vs Bf-109 (German aircraft designations of the period)

[kelloggs2066]

The original designation was Bf-109, "BF" being the German abbreviation for the manufacturer: "Bavarian Aircraft Works".

It was later officially-redesignated Me-109 in honor of its designer, Willy Messerschmitt; plus, the manufacturer had changed its name to "Messerschmitt Aircraft" around the same time.

Renaming aircraft series to the name of their designer was done occasionally in the RLM (Reich Ministry of Aviation) during this period; the later Fw-190s (when the design had diverged considerably from the original) were redesignated Ta-152 after Focke-Wulf's chief designer, Kurt Tank.

(German aircraft designation was a two-letter code for the manufacturer (later designer), followed by a three-digit RLM model number for all aircraft. Whenever possible, evolutionary developments into new aircraft (as opposed to completely-original designs) were designated by keeping the same last two digits and incrementing the first digit, as in Me-110 to Me-210 to Me-410.)

[deckardcanine]

I suppose we could treat "9/11" the same as "the Fourth of July," whose significance is probably known to most people in the world with a high school education. Of course, that day has another name which, I believe, is considered more formal. "World Trade Center Day" is still long, and "WTC Day" takes about equally long to say.

On 9/11/03, a Washington Post editorial said that we shouldn't even consider it a holiday. I don't recall the author's precise reasoning, but it probably had to do with the ill-defined notion of "letting the terrorists win." In any case, he's clearly outvoted.

It is an unusual sort of secular holiday for Americans. Offhand, Pearl Harbor Day is the only other one I know to commemorate an unhappy moment, and I've barely heard the term.

[level_head]

Nor had I encountered 9/11 as "Patriot Day."

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Nor had I encountered 9/11 as "Patriot Day."

[deckardcanine]

First time I heard of it was today.

[wolfp10]

When I turned my desk calendar to September, I thought "Patriot Day" was a Canadian holiday at first.

[sir_dave]

Second, such a renaming obscures the original event.This is for Americans to decide - though of course it was not only Americans that died that day - but I think you make a compelling case, as always

[level_head]

I contemplated a riff based upon "Remember, remember, Eleven September" -- but I was aware of the second portion, and decided that it wasn't quite suitable. I don't think you actively sing that part any more, do you?

We are at war with ourselves, to an extent, as many decide that this merely a battle between the "(there is no) terrorist threat" and "neocons," and somehow doesn't involve them.

Fashion supports this divide; patriotism is declasé, but you can mimic Hollywood celebreties if you suggest that the US Government had a hand in bringing down the towers.

Speaking of those celebrities, these quotes from a Time magazine interview amused me:DAMON: Look, you have us confused with deep thinkers. You've already put more thought into why we did the movie than we did.
CLOONEY: You're thinking that we're not just whores for money. There's your mistake.
On a plus, one of them did cheer for Newt Gingrich. His sarcasm is actually wrapped around a good notion. ];-)

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[sir_dave]

The only version I have ever heard repeated goes:

Remember, remember the fifth of November,
Gunpowder, treason, and plot,
I know of no reason why the gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.

According to Wikipedia this continues:

Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes, 't was his intent
To blow up the King and Parliament.
Three score barrels of powder below,
Poor old England to overthrow;
By God's providence he was catch'd
With a dark lantern and burning match.
Holloa boys, holloa boys, make the bells ring.
Holloa boys, holloa boys, God save the King!
Hip hip hoorah! --- but I'd never seen or heard that part anywhere before Googling. The 'popery' version I quoted above was utterly unknown to me before, but makes a lot of sense historically, that is, it makes sense that there should be forgotten rhymes explicitly attacking Catholicism; that they should exist because that is a fair certainty, that they should be forgotten, because the Pope has not incited any nations to invade us in recent history, and as long as he continues not to do

[level_head]

Odd that I'd be more familiar with a peculiarly English rhyme than you. ];-)

Nevertheless, you've impressed me many times with (among other things) your knowledge of the US, and my general knowledge of the UK is sparse except for certain narrow focuses.

An aside: Messers. Damon and Clooney were not talking to each other; both were responding to an interviewer who was giving them too much credit for their depth of portrayal in "Oceans 13".

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[prester_scott]

I don't see the point in commemorating the day when it is not evident that we have learned anything. We are, to choose two examples, piddling around with stuff like hassling Grandma over the toothpaste in her carry-on bag, while leaving cross-border shipping completely uninspected. But for the hard work of a few individuals working day and night in spite of the bureaucracy, we are every bit as vulnerable as we were six years ago. Actually, maybe more so, because thanks to all the hype, no one can tell how serious the threat really is any more. I know I can't.

Remember the Pearl Harbor-style reaction immediately afterwards?

[prester_scott]

The big upswelling of popular support, like what motivated the home front during WW2. And what was the official response to the home front?

Shut up and go shopping.

Now, six years later, we're completely Vietnamized, with our resident Fifth Column from the Cold War -- orphaned by the Second Russian Revolution -- reliving their Berkeley glory days of 1968 ("VIETNAM! VIETNAM! VIETNAAAAAAAAAAM!!!") when they toppled Bush -- I mean Nixon.

Back in the aftermath of VIETNAAAAAAM (TM) -- the Carter years -- I remember talk around the college dorms about joining the Communist Party "to get on the winning side". Has anybody noticed mass conversions to Islam (for the same reason) yet?

Re: Remember the Pearl Harbor-style reaction immediately afterwards?

[level_head]

Marmoe's articles above note an increase -- from 300 per year to 4,000 in Germany -- but this does not seem to qualify as "mass conversions" yet.

Nevertheless, communism IS increasingly popular in the US now, with annual conventions featuring speakers and writers from major outlets (and universities, of course) celebrating how well they have infiltrated the US media.

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Re: Remember the Pearl Harbor-style reaction immediately afterwards?

[prester_scott]

Nevertheless, communism IS increasingly popular in the US now, with annual conventions featuring speakers and writers from major outlets (and universities, of course) celebrating how well they have infiltrated the US media.I think it's America's turn in the Red barrel

[marmoe]

Over here it is simply September 11, often even in the American 9/11 notation. I think it has become a brand, I don't know how you could improve on it by pressing a new label. Even worse, I think the motives for changing the name would be called into question, irrespective of how benign or not they may be.

[level_head]

Agreed on all points.

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