And All This Devotion, I Never Knew At All
[+] It's snowing in Boston for the 400th day in a row. :|
[+] You guys, tonight is the night. It's the night The Walking Dead returns, and the start of what I'm sure is going to be a complete knot in my stomach for the next two months about Beth Greene. I just wanted to thank you all for your patience for all of my emotional vomit from the *past* two months.
kadie_darling has been running a full series marathon over at the beth_daryl community and we've been having an absolutely EPIC conversation. But I wanted to throw it out to all of you, so I'm copying and pasting my own thoughts on pretty much the whole series (with a very Beth Greene/Beth&Daryl point of view, of course).
This will probably be at least a couple of entries. It was 20 pages in a word doc (why can't I focus like this for fic.)
I think the inclusion of Morgan in this season is HUGE sign of what is to come for Beth. I know that 'Team Delusional' is our name, but it is feeling less and less like delusions, you know?
The FIRST time I saw Merle, I don't think I had too much of an opinion of him. I knew that the character Daryl existed (I don't know if I knew he was Daryl *Dixon*, and I don't know if I caught Merle's last name either). I really thought that Merle was just meant to be an antagonist in that one episode, and then when they went back to the camp, and we met Daryl, I was like, Oh. So THAT'S what this guy is going to be about.
Michael Rooker handcuffed to the roof as the cold open of Tell It To The Frogs is a MASTERFUL performance. When I rewatched it, I really took in a lot of what he was saying, even though a lot of it is hysterics. But it's this never begged before, not gonna beg now that really chilled me. Now, not to skip ahead too much, but we know that Merle and Daryl were both beaten by their father, and eventually Merle left home and then came back for Daryl. There was already a good bit of damage done, and I don't think it was ever an ideal situation, but for a time, Daryl was protected by Merle, and made to feel safe by him. Merle never had that- no one to protect him, no one to come back for him (as far as he knew then). At first glance, Daryl and Norman Reedus fall into that dirty-sexy, anti-hero cliché that has been fandom's darling for a while. I have a line in the fic that I'm working on that just says that Daryl's life didn't change much after the ZA. He used to spend weeks at a time in the woods, sleeping on the ground and eating what he caught and killed. He was definitely better equipped than most. I think that Rick definitely put out the first olive branch with Daryl when he offered to go back and get Merle (actually, the be specific, *Lori* volunteered Rick, when she had first begged him to stay...let's not forget that). I think that, at first, Daryl stuck with Rick because he needs a leader, or did at that time. A missing scene I would love to see played out would have been Daryl and Merle deciding to split up, with Merle going on the run with Glenn, Andrea and T-Dog (and that other guy) and Daryl staying at camp to hunt.
If and when Beth returns (WHEN), I don't think it will be as...joyful as when Rick returned to Carl and Lori. I think that there will be a lot of disbelief, but Maggie will be the one to get there first. I think it will be completely unbelievable to Daryl for a long time. And as far as Beth's state of mind, if she's with Morgan, I don't know if they're going to be *purposely* looking for Rick and the gang, or if she's shut off that Searching/Hopeful part of herself and is just in survival mode.
And we're back. Daryl and Rick now are like complete opposite versions of themselves then. Of course, they've built up trust now, but even then, they worked together well, just had that natural chemistry together. But total opposites- now Daryl is the wait and see, and Rick is the, they don't get to live. I forget how it's explained in s3, but maybe Merle did go back for Daryl? They left the campsite pretty soon after the events of this episode, and maybe he had to hole up for a while and give his arm a rest.
I don't think that Daryl had a particularly close relationship with Jim- that's not what that scene spoke to me. Through his time with Rick in Atlanta, learning honor and loyalty, and seeing actual *morality* and humanity with Glenn refusing to treat their friends and family like monsters, Daryl is slowly starting to pick up on the perspective of the real world, or the world before the ZA where people were relatively nice and normal and most of them probably wished they were back there (at that point anyway). Daryl just kind of stood in the back when they all said goodbye to Jim, and watched, and it was a show of respect, because people are people.
My favorite moment of s1, hands down, is Rick returning to Carl and Lori.
It's not a very good quality clip, but apart from Carl's joy, I love everyone's shocked faces. This was probably the first honestly good thing they had seen since the ZA.
In s1, Rick was definitely my favorite character. It was completely his story in those days.
Hardest character to lose was probably Jacqui. She just seems like such a nice woman, such a good friend to everyone. I do have to say that I didn't realize until the very end that she was meant to be T-Dog's wife, or girlfriend, or whatever.
S1 was really good, really tight. It all seems a whole lot more *simple* than what it is now.
So, not knowing anything really about the press or the fandom when s2 was airing, I'm willing to bet that Daryl was probably one of the more popular characters/actors of the first season (BS2 had just come out, also), and it seemed like a very conscious decision that the show was moving him into more of a hero role (or at least an anti-hero role). I think that Daryl definitely had a man!crush on Rick from going to Atlanta, seeing the way he dealt with the people at the nursing home, and since then, through the CDC and all, he was so desperate to prove his worth as part of the group (while also keeping himself separate). Tracking and hunting were his strengths and his thing, and while I don't think he purposefully kept his knowledge to himself, I think he might have been afraid of being usurped at the time, of his purpose with the group.
Back to sort of the show purposefully putting Daryl/Norman front and center, I feel like even into s3, even though this has never really been a 'ship show', I think that the Andrea/Daryl scene was really just a behind-the-scenes chem test. Because they never really went back to that, and other than just being part of the larger group together, I didn't really see them having such a special bond on their own. But the one thing I will say is that Daryl drops a few stories about his childhood in s2 and s3, and it's always with his bow in his hand, while he's out tracking something, and I think just doing something that he's so good at and is so natural for him allows for him to open up, without thinking about it.
It's almost impossible to not try to figure out the long game they had for Beth, because she was so looked over, and just, like, in the background for most of this season, definitely no more important than Patricia, and I think had even less to do than Jimmy in this first bunch of episodes, but from what she's grown to...I really do believe that they've had a long game for her all along.
And Cherokee Rose now...Now, I know that some people ship both Beth/Daryl and Carol/Daryl and I don't mean this to offend anyone but I really see the basis of Carol and Daryl's relationship like that as surrogate mother and child. And I don't mean that at ALL because of their relative ages (I know that Norman and Melissa are only a few years apart). Once again, I'm trying not to bring future seasons into this discussion, but I'm wondering how much of Daryl's backstory the writers would have figured out at this point- either way, everyone could infer that Daryl might not have had the best childhood. I think that Daryl's first 'attraction', if you will (I don't mean that as a romantic attraction) was being on the flip side of a child who lost his mother and watching a mother grieve for her child probably both brought up some old wounds and gave him peace. And he so wanted to make that right for her, the way no one could for him.
Now it's time to play, This Is My Headcanon, and I'm Sticking To It.
I've read some really lovely s2 AU's where Beth and Daryl form a connection and attachment on the farm (in fact, I'm reading a new one right now,You’ve Got My Heart/You’ve Got My Soul, but in my personal headcanon, I really don't think that they *noticed, noticed* each other during this time period. I think that Daryl was really focused on finding Sophia, and I think Beth was really lost in herself. Even up to current episodes, she hardly ever talks about it, but losing her mother (even while she was turned and 'safe' in the barn) completely turned her world upside down and I think in the last days on the farm, that's all that consumed her.
And that being said...I don't think that Beth's relationship with Jimmy was that deep, and probably not that physical. I think that Hershel might have been over-exaggerating chasing them around. Once again, here is my personal head canon: Beth and Jimmy were childhood sweethearts who'd been dating for a few months before the ZA, and when the world went to hell, it took Jimmy's parents with it (why else would he be at the farm). And with Beth losing half of her own family, I think that having each other was a comfort, but they were probably both too scared and sad to really act like teenagers about first loves. I'm sure that Hershel had the requisite Under my roof, you will respect my rules talk with Jimmy, but there was no need to *really* chase them around.
And a little bit of canon-picking...I believe that Glenn said Maggie was 22 at that time, and Maggie said that Beth was 16, so...6 year age gap. (This is why I'm very sure that Maggie and Beth are full sisters, because Maggie said that Hershel married Annette when she was 13.)
I mean, my perspective is biased, because I watched the show the first time through, knowing so many people on my f-list adored Beth, so I immediately found the things to love about her, when she hardly had anything to do, and was basically blending in with a whole slew of new characters who were basically just background scenery for a long time. But in the long game of her character, I think it says something that she was such a quiet, you-won't-even-notice-her, little slip of a thing, to the warrior she became.
I do NOT see Beth's death like Sophia's. And because I'm such a psycho about her, I almost find that insulting that some people (including Norman Reedus himself) have implied tha there are parallels.
I think...that Beth overcame her grief the only way she knew how, the only way she could. And truthfully, I don't think anyone helped her. I think that her sister, her father, Lori, Carol, Rick, etc. were *kind* to her, but it's true what they say- the only way out is through. And she did the work herself, and she eventually just put it behind her. If anything, I think she committed herself to taking care of her father.
I don't think that Daryl's suspicions of Shane were really that suspicious, if you know what I mean. I think he was objective- Rick and Dale (and even Hershel to an extent) had personal issues with Shane. Daryl didn't. Daryl figuring it out was more detective work than anything else. I think he earned his spot as second in command, not by being Rick's friend, but because he definitely has the most physical survival skills.
Even though Beth had made her decision to live, I don't think she (or anyone for that matter) would really be capable of rational *thought* while being ripped away from the only home they'd ever known, and saw it literally torn down by actual monsters. There's a lot of loss in between the farm and settling the prison, and I think that for a long time, none of this really processes for Beth (losing her family, the farm, all the terrible things she sees). She doesn't process it because they are literally in hide-fight-run-survival mode, wiping with tree leaves, eating grass and mudsnakes or whatever and just trying not to freeze to death.
Hardest character to lose in this time is tough, because everyone loves Dale, obviously, and Shane is controversial, but Jon Bernthal is just so magnificent. Rick is slowly starting to fill the void he left, but he still has something to live for (his kids) and Shane's life and future was just a black void. He literally had nothing to lose. He was terrifying.
I have *very* extensive thoughts on the winter between s2 and s3. There were ten of them, in two cars and Daryl's bike in the beginning, and they grabbed another truck some time before s3. That's very close quarters- no privacy, and for Beth (and Maggie, and Hershel), this is most likely the first time that they had really live off the land (sleeping outside, no plumbing, etc.) And the way it happened- they literally were ripped off the land with the clothes on their backs. It definitely wasn't *easy* for Lori and Carol and everyone to leave their houses, (and they probably didn't think they'd be leaving forever) but they had some warning, a chance to pack, etc. Beth, Maggie and Hershel had to sink or swim. I think that Beth and Carl's friendship fostered naturally out of being the youngest and the relative 'kids'. And obviously he had a crush on her, and she just was a kind person in general, but I think she was also happy to have someone who specifically looked out for her (that she was aware of, I have thoughts on Daryl during this time period too). The Parting Glass is even more bittersweet now. The song is lovely and poignant itself. But she seemed almost nervous before she starts and I do have it head-cannoned that someone spoke to her about singing and being quiet in general and this might have even been around the time that Daryl called her singing 'annoying', and that obviously stuck with her.
That screw around? scene is a complete and total JOKE. It is two friends joking around (or her giving him a hard time, really) and there is not one ounce of romantic subtext or longing or seriousness between them.
I really like the Daryl/Rick dynamic in s3. I think the most interesting thing about it is how they have come from such opposite places in life, met in the middle, and are almost starting to cross over to the other side, but even taking it more extreme. (Rick, coming from a 'nice, normal' background and being a basically good guy to a psychopath who will bite out a person's jugular. Daryl, coming from poverty and abuse and leading a life of crime - at least, that's my take - to becoming this quiet, thoughtful leader.)
I think that Beth and Lori's friendship is very overlooked because it happened mostly offscreen. Also, from what I understand, Sarah Wayne Callies is pretty ignored in this fandom anyway. And frankly, I think that Maggie never mentioning Beth after the prison is...I really don't know what to think, because I *do* think that Maggie loves Beth and if Beth were in danger *in front of her*, Maggie would kill or die for her. But she's out-of-sight, out-of-mind. Something else I've realized- Maggie told Beth to get on the bus, but when she finds it and kills all the walkers, she never mentions her, just that she's trying to find Glenn.
In my head, Merle is seven years older than Daryl, and most people think he's older than that (but I devised that number, because Michael Rooker is fourteen years older than Norman, but I thought that was too great of a gap so I just halved it). That's seven years of having to face their father by himself, and I'm not really sure how much their mother might have interfered. And when Daryl came along, innocent little baby, I think Merle did what he could to protect him (probably not too much). But he knew that 'sweetness' wouldn't save him in that family so probably *any* sweetness would be too much in his eyes.
Well, it's highly speculated that Morgan will be the one to find Beth (but I guess that really makes him her Michonne). As for who will find them from the group first, gosh I really hope it's Daryl. But I just don't want it to be Noah. (It's much quieter, but I've seen some press stuff and some interview stuff with Tyler James Williams where he, at least, seems to see a very deep connection between Noah and Beth. I've got my shipper defenses up.)
I see lots of similarities between Grady and Woodbury- clean, relatively modern looking, with things kind of looking the way it did 'before'. But I think after Woodbury, once we saw Grady, we knew it was too good to be true.
Uh, so far Beth's 'death' has been a slap in the fucking face. We're just going to have to see. Lori's death, on the other hand, I think is the pivotal moment for the whole series, particularly if you still see Andy Lincoln as the star of the show. T-Dog...I kind of feel bad for him. He's clearly a core member of the group, having been there since s1 but he never had any sort of real storyline or character moment other than just being a good guy.
And I would just like to add that while he's certainly not doing a jig, Daryl's reaction to Carol's 'death' is nothing like how he was in 5.08. Nothing like it.
Ahhh...And back to thoughts on Daryl, during s2 and s3. I think that this is where he fell in love with her. He didn't know it at the time, and there was never any thought of *Doing Anything About It*, but with their close proximity, no privacy, etc., they all got to know each other extremely well. Maybe not trading life stories, but knowing each other's habits, mannerisms, instincts, etc. He knows she's a nurturer and caretaker, he knows that Carl is probably the most fragile person there (with Rick in the tombs and the baby can be held by anyone).
I think that Merle had a kid. Being good with kids is instinct, knowing how to properly hold and feed an infant is learned technique. And no hesitation- that's muscle memory. I think that Merle definitely had a kid, and Daryl was part of its life for a little while, but maybe the mom just didn't want any part of the Dixons and that stopped Uncle Daryl.
After Lori's death, I think that the way Beth gravitates so towards Judith is indicative of how close she and Lori were. Also, I can see Beth identifying with losing a mother, of being forgotten or looked over. I think it's still a little while yet before she becomes Judith's regular caregiver (the day that Hershel brought Rick out and formally started farming with him).
I don't think that Daryl was particularly *close* with his mother...but she was all he had, and given the comparison, she was obviously his favorite parent. And that's going to rock you, no matter what.
Not to harp on it, not to bash, but yes, Daryl was *very* sad when he thought Carol was dead. They all were. But it was NOT like in Coda.
And I have to say, it's hard for me to put myself if Maggie's head, because the way I view the show, she's basically supporting character in Beth's story. But while I do think that Maggie loves her family and would do anything for them, there is a part of her that just wanted to escape- maybe the farm, maybe country life, maybe memories of a dead mother that she feels guilty of in front of a loving stepmother. I think that Glenn was her first way out of that. And I think that they grew to love each other deeply, but that came later, out of necessary companionship and sexual chemistry. I think pretty soon after she met him, and certainly by the point they got kidnapped, in Maggie's eyes, it was her and Glenn against the world, and she *hopes* everyone else is okay, but this is all she really *needs*.
I think Daryl just has his general distrust of Michonne in s3- if he had known Merle was at Woodbury, it wouldn't have changed anything. He just would have gone quicker, and more recklessly.
I think that Beth caught on that Axel was checking her out- and not that she'd ever entertain anything with him, but I do think she's very starved for attention at this point. And he's not being *so* awful, just asking pretty general questions, so she's polite back.
Daryl...I mean, it's hard in this world, but he's had like at least 12 points in the show where I *knew* he wasn't going to die (I think Reedus is far too valued over there) but I was like, HOW in the HECK is he going to get out of this one? And I think he fights his way out of every jam he's ever in, but there's also this calm that comes over him, because I think that (at this point), he does expect to have a violent, gruesome end, it's just a matter of when.
I didn't read anything at all into Beth's kiss on Rick's cheek when they came back to the prison at first, but on my third (or maybe fourth?) rewatch of 3.09, I do see Rick watch her walk off with a sort of...longing? Wanting? Something very bittersweet. And I have now read a good handful of fics that base off that moment, so go Brick Fandom.
I don't think there was really a Right or Wrong with Daryl going off with Merle. It was something he had to do. I think he knew that it could end very badly and he was willing to take the 50/50 chance. Carol's reaction to Daryl not coming back...actually, it was (a less panicked version) a lot like Daryl when Carol got hit by the car. But still, it was like…how incredibly sad, we're one less down, one less of a family...got to move on though. NOBODY RAN DOWN THE STREET FOR A FULL NIGHT AND DAY AFTER EACH OTHER. (We're not there yet though.)
That scene with Beth and Maggie on the bunk with Judith is, I think my favorite scene of the two of them. It just speaks so much to Beth's old soul and she knew she couldn't *do* anything about it, and Beth really isn't a you wanna talk about it? kind of girl (she could be but if the person says no she doesn't push). But I love that she just gently puts the baby in her sister's arms, tiny, beautiful, all hope, and in this way also gives Maggie something to do. And it's really comforting and beautiful.
I think Daryl is realizing how much he has changed by s3. That there's more than one way to do things (scavenging with Glenn, other methods of survival with Rick). Daryl saved that family, because in season 1, he learned honor and loyalty from Rick and Glenn. And he heard a baby crying. And (as is my headcanon), Merle's child made him a sucker for babies for life.
I think...I don't know, Merle not knowing that Daryl had been abused always rang pretty untrue to me. I know that's the case, and it's some great work in that scene from Reedus and Rooker, but it's just strange. Daryl and Merle had lived together for years. He *never* saw him without a shirt on? (Although Norman does this great little panic of quickly wrapping his shirt around his back again, like he really has had this modesty his whole life.) I think that Daryl cared that Merle would be accepted at the prison- but he was also confident enough that he would be a peacekeeper. But also...when we first see him turn away in the woods, I'm imagining Merle follows him soon enough, so they are reconciled there.
As Beth starts to peek up more this season, maybe these were subtle (not sure how intentional, but it was happening all along) hints that Beth is growing up. When we meet Beth, she is at a curious crossroads, agewise, because she's 16 years old, but in her world, she's 100. I think she felt 100 years old since her mother died. But as close as she always is to Hershel (in proximity, physically close), either she's clinging to him or he's clinging to her, hoping to hold on to that last thread of childhood.
I've written in the past (and slowly getting back into it) and one of the most pleasurable things for me, as a writer, is when a background character that I might not thought so much of at first, starts really showing me their voice and I want to write more and more for them. I'm wondering if that's what happened with Gimple and Beth, or they had a long game for her, and just took their time getting there. (I'm betting on the former.)
I think Beth absolutely chose Hold On as a morale booster, and I love how the whole group (even Merle) hushed down to watch/listen to her. I also think that Emily sounds awesome on it.
I...am not quick enough to decipher anything on Morgan's walls, other than the stuff the show focused on. Due to all of the theories...Morgan finding Beth just seems like fact to me. All of it adds up. I don't really see them having any connection here yet (in the middle of s3. And it's all up in the air of what state of mind Beth will be in when/if (IF) they do reunite with the whole group. Maybe amnesia, maybe full-on rage (my own personal theory), actively seeking them, not thinking they will ever find them...It's all up in the air. The one connection I see is that Beth has lost her father (and the rest of her family, as far as she knows) and Morgan has lost his child (and wife). So maybe there's something there (but that's also almost everyone in this world). Something else I thought of, no real evidence to back it up, is that Morgan might be Noah's father, or related to him? I don't think he's ever said that he DIDN'T have children other than Duane.
Oh my gosh, when Beth fired that gun, without a word, even though I already loved her and knew that amazing things were coming for her, I was like I AM GOING TO LOVE THIS GIRL UNTIL THE END OF TIME, FOREVER AND EVER AMEN.
I liked his interactions with Martinez. It reminded me of a scene in War Horse, where a German soldier and an English soldier work together to free a horse and acknowledge that their lives are pretty much the same.
As for comparisons between Philip and Milton, and Dawn and Dr. Edwards...well, I think that Milton genuinely *likes* and admires Philip, or at least used to and is clinging to that. I just think that Dr. Edwards is weak, and a suck-up. (I literally have no interest ever in any character who was introduced at Grady...and Dr. Edwards was the worst, least interesting one.) And Andrea and Beth now...It's tough, because Andrea's death was really bad, but it's just this nagging feeling that everything in 5.07 and 5.08 just didn't feel right, didn't really feel like it was happening. Andrea's death arc, while being very *sad*, felt on par, right for the show and this story.
I don't even know if it had registered to Daryl yet how much he has changed. I think that Merle's death affected Daryl in two extreme ways. It broke his heart, of course, but I think that, after a time, it might feel like necessary heartbreak. Like he needed to put that part of his life solidly in the past, that part couldn't survive.
I think, in the beginning, Beth was 'defaulted' to Judith. And I think that Hershel would volunteer her for this job, in his efforts to keep his own child safe.
I am just...I will say it many other times, I'm sure, but I am just so SURE that Beth's 'death' in 5.08 wasn't real or was misleading. We will have to continue this conversation over time...
Beth was definitely, solidly my favorite by the end of s3.
I really, really love s3. S4 probably has my favorite episodes, but s3 is just so great for the overall story, the overall family, showing the team element.
Hardest character to lose...well, actually I think it served the story well, but I have to say Merle, just because I think it shaped so much for Daryl going forward.
Favorite parts were just BETH and Michael Rooker (Merle is a villain, for sure, but I loved Rooker's portrayal).
At this point, I'm going to go with Zach was introduced to open up the door for Beth and Daryl. I'm so convinced of the long game between them, that's really the only explanation that seems feasible. And I would like to add: I *like* Zach. I think he's very sweet, seems very stuck on Beth. Before he left, I get the feeling that he really wanted to tell her that he loves her (I think love comes quickly in this world, if you have a decent connection with someone, you just go for it) but she's so breezy and he just decided to save it. Sad. And Daryl seems to really like him too, good-naturedly going along with his game (What did Daryl Dixon do??) Daryl comments that he'd been at it for six weeks, so that's a good amount of time for them to build some sort of relationship (I saw a little hero worship from Zach to Daryl). And Beth goes right to him, with a sweet smile, for a kiss. I *like* Zach. And I think of how exciting that must have been for her- a cute, sweet guy her age who had his own car WHERE THEY COULD LISTEN TO CD'S. I don't think she was madly in love with him, but I think all of these things added up to being good enough for a little bit of happiness. I just want to make it clear that I really did like him, because he seems to get a bad rap in fic, for being abusive (no, didn't see any of that at all) or his attention being unwanted from Beth, or even just being boring.
And her reaction (I don't cry any more)- I don't think that has to do with lack of emotion, or lack of caring about people. I think that she carries a bit of guilt about her suicide attempt, for what she put her father and sister through and is just so committed to being pleasing, being okay, so that she can be in service to other people at this point (taking care of her father, the children at the prison, etc.) She's going to make herself okay so that no one else has to worry about her.
I think a lot of stuff happened between s2 and s3 that we didn’t really get to see the effect of, until s4. Like, in s3, they are in panic mode the whole time, and in s4, they have established a life, and we do actually get to see how it’s changed their personalities.
And Beth's cell- it's another common set up in fic to have Beth just being at the prison all the time, and she'll ask Daryl to train her for runs. Now, I love that set up as much as the next shipper, but her cell indicates, to me, that she does go for runs. First of all, during the winter between the farm and the prison, they were basically living out in the open, and they all had to jump into the action at one time or another, even Beth, even Carl, even Lori. Of course, probably Rick and Daryl (and T-Dog, Glenn and Maggie to an extent) were *point* when it was time to fight and clear, but they all had to be able to do it. But the point is, Beth already knows how to kill walkers, shoot guns and clear rooms, so she definitely goes on the occasional run because her ‘cell’ is basically like an attic. It’s *filled to the brim* with things that speak of her soul and her artistic tendencies. Like, I could see if people routinely brought books back on runs, or maybe Maggie might grab something for her on occasion, but while they are searching for formula, clothing, necessities, etc., there’s no way anyone is thinking to bring back a big birdcage and quirky, quaint old signs. The other things is that her walls have a lot of the kids’ drawings, so I’m thinking she’s definitely a favorite (I imagine her being especially close to Mikah).
I think that the folks at the prison’s opinion of Daryl is pretty accurate for all he does for everyone, and a little, I think it was the show’s meta on how popular Norman is.
Damn romance novel is defeinitely foreshadowing, and it’s also Daryl figuratively pulling on Beth’s ponytail, as well as giving Zach a little good-natured guff because I think he is very aware of their age difference seeing them look so happy and young and free.
And then, THE SCENE in 4.01, here’s my big moment! It was at this point that I realized that Daryl already loved Beth and what’s more, already *knew* he loved Beth. We don’t get to see his a-ha moment where he figured it out. But at this point, it’s already there, enough that he is worried enough about her that it’s something that he feels the need to do himself. Glenn is the natural choice, as her brother-in-law and family, or one might even say Michonne, with her probably being comforted if a woman told her, but Daryl takes it on himself. And it’s just so clear in the look on his face when she hugs him and then when he tentatively reaches for her elbow. It’s this very tiny second of pleasure that he allows himself.
I really like the scene where Beth wraps Michonne’s ankle. A lot of things needed to be set up in 4.01 and 4.02, a lot of it through inference, and Michonne’s place as truly one of the family was a big one, because she was just starting to get to know everyone in the end of s3. But another thing was that she still held herself a little at arm’s distance, with all of them being so happy to see her again when she returns. It seems her routine to stay a week or so, leave for a few weeks and so on. So without having any sort of regularity, I don’t think she would ever rotate in to really lend a hand with the kids. I don’t think that there’s a *story* reason that Beth is so isolated, I think it’s just that she wasn’t a huge part of those plotlines (all the more why it was important to ‘set up’ her and Daryl in 4.01). And she went in to take care of Judith, it seemed like she was sort of in charge (along with Carl) as ‘head baby-sitter’, which is a legitimate responsibility there (and I don’t think anyone would argue).
In a lot of fics, Judith is almost portrayed as Beth’s daughter and I do think that she loved her that much, but I’d love to read a really nitty-gritty look at the time Beth was more or less raising this baby girl. In fics, Judith is generally a gorgeous and adorable, perfect cooing infant who smiles and snuggles all day, and I would love to see Beth struggling with sleep deprivation and poop and colic and feeling at the end of her rope because she’s a teenager (and in my headcanon, still a virgin) and she’s not supposed to be a *mother* yet, but that’s what happened, and she loves this little girl more than anything, but still...How is this her life?
I think that Daryl’s leadership came naturally as Rick stepped back, but it also happened *gradually*, so he was able to build up his confidence to act without overthinking it first.
It’s in this episode that Beth says the famous we’ve all got jobs to do- and that’s really where I felt a lot of her guilt from her suicide. What needs to be done? Okay. She’ll do it. I think she’s just been trying to keep the kids occupied. Singing, story time, whatever worked on that day. I did have it in my mind that she was teaching the little girls how to braid hair, and that’s why she always had that little braid, but I now know she had that since the beginning of s4. I know that certain Native American tribes would braid a strand of hair to honor the dead, and I could see Beth doing this as a way of mourning. She doesn’t cry any more, but she still mourns. I don’t think that she’s necessarily *going through the motions* (she might be, a little in the immediate aftermath of Zach’s death, but I think she picked herself up pretty quick), but I think Beth really forces herself to not dwell on her own heart and her own pain, so just keeps pushing through.
I think Daryl is absolutely (and rightfully) pissed at Bob. Not at first, not for his ‘confession’ of trying to grab the wine at the Big Lots (and being responsible for Zach’s death), because Daryl understands demons haunting a person. So he’s cool with that. But to do it again, and almost let himself get taken over for a bottle (not to mention *not* filling his bag with necessary medication for the people at the prison) and endangering the rest of their crew, that, Daryl cannot forgive. But even so, Daryl is still more in control of his faculties- they still have the prison, and things are bad, but they’re still okay. He still has his safety net, and that allows him to keep his veneer of civility and his temper.
I think Beth honestly isn’t bothered what she does, so long as she helps them all keep going another day. I think if her dad was sick, she’d be at his side, nursing him. But Judith needs to be taken care of, and I don’t think that Beth ever feels inconvenienced by that. And I think that one of the biggest things that bonds her with the baby is that they have both lost their mothers.
I know that Beth and Daryl have been a long game, I’m not certain how long. Definitely from the beginning of s4 (therefore, at least thought about in the writers’ room since the end of s3), but if it has been *from the start* (and I *don’t* think that’s the case, and put a pin in that thought), I think it’s very intentional that Hershel and Daryl led pretty similar childhoods. Abusive, alcoholic parents, a lot of regret in their past. For these reasons, I think Hershel would be at least *okay* with Daryl as a son-in-law. It would depend on when it happened (and I love all fics that start a relationship with them at any point in canon). At the farm, I don’t think he would have been cool with it, not the least because of her age. But at the prison, after their winter on the road, Hershel knew what a good man Daryl was, and things that matter so much in this world* (for the record, I’m not condoning men in their 30’s/40’s going after teenagers in this REAL WORLD, for the record) did not matter in this new world. And thinking about what might make a good mate for one of his girls, if Hershel had his own choice, I think the top list of his qualifications would be can this man protect my daughter. (As well as being kind, Beth being happy, etc.)
The thing is, Beth actually has never been able to say goodbye to anyone. Her mother and brother were turned, Jimmy, Lori, etc. It would be really nice if she ever got to reflect on that, that death just happens and you never know when (also goes back to I don’t cry any more, because it’s going to keep happening, and it’s too exhausting to break your heart over it every time). But also...this is true for almost everyone in this world, that you don’t get to say goodbye, so I don’t know if it’s specifically Beth-focused.
I think Daryl’s reaction to what Carol did is very...Daryl. I can understand him not wanting to believe it, because (here we go again) I think Daryl has her on a pedestal as a motherly, kind figure, and it’s so unthinkable. So he’s angry about it, at first, but we never get to see it really unfold, but he’s not, like...shouting and threatening and whatnot, so I think he would have come around on it.
Daryl hands Beth a machine gun. This is very key- he’s doing it slowly and carefully. He wouldn’t put it in her hands if he wasn’t 100% sure that she knew how to use it. I had never picked up on the *order* of the reactions after Hershel’s death. Beth to Daryl to Maggie must be very intentional, because Beth and Maggie are in the same shot, so them together would have been natural. So I’m back to Beth and Daryl’s long game- and Daryl already knowing that he was in love with Beth. The prison looks nearly empty by the time we see Beth and Daryl together. I think she was looking for Judith, and the kids, and Maggie and Glenn and I think that Daryl never had any intention of leaving the prison. He was going to fight to the last man and take down as many as he could, go down with the ship. But when he saw her, he had to get her out of there.
And yes, Coda had the normal closing credits theme because BETH IS ALIVE.
I really love all of 30 Days Without An Accident for showing all the ways they had carved a life out that prison.
Hershel’s death devastated me. But truthfully, I understood *why* everyone on this show has died (up until Beth).
S4 is my absolute favorite season. And it makes me sad that it got panned critically, and by a lot of fans, because I would happily watch that set up forever.
I’ve talked a little bit before about Beth’s journey through the writers’ eyes, and I truly believe that Beth was introduced as kind of an afterthought. Like, Hershel had storylines, and Maggie had storylines (and they’re both in the comics, correct?) but then there was Patricia and Jimmy and Beth, and I think that these three characters were wait and see’s for the writers. These three characters were introduced and not all of them were meant to survive, but the writers (and directors, and I’ll bet some of the s1 actors gave feedback) saw who had the most potential. And in the end, for whatever reason, that was Beth, and Emily Kinney.
And throughout s3, they gave her a few more little moments, showed how she grew (I don’t know why it’s such a common concept in fic that Beth doesn’t know how to fight until she’s on the run with Daryl, she’s very clearly given a few lookout points in s3), connected her more to the Grimes family (and Rick is still the lead of the show, I guess), and the writers grew to love her, and really, I know I’m biased, but they opened 4b with her narrative, because this show is basically becoming All About Beth, and her running through the woods, fighting off walkers, while she had her peaceful, hopeful voiceover was her coming out party. Even though people probably didn’t get to know each other in the so what do you like to do kind of ways, by the end of the winter on the road, all of these people knew each other’s habits, body language, instincts, inside and out. Beth is running all on instinct in the opening scene of Inmates, and I’m sure she picked up a lot from Daryl (and Rick, and T-Dog) that winter, and they were just falling back into old routines, muscle memory. Daryl shut down after the prison, because nobody has ever beat up Daryl Dixon harder than Daryl Dixon. In Inmates, the writers were definitely going out of their way to show a complete lack of hope and faith in Daryl and the bursting humanity of Beth.
Oh my gosh, STILL. I’ve been dying to get to this one!
Okay, so on this last rewatch, I realized that the night in the trunk was the night after the prison fell. Initially, I thought more like a week or so had gone by, but it must have been the next day. (From Beth’s all I wanted to do was lay down and cry today, it just seems like such an immediate reaction.)
Truth be told, I don’t gleam much of a connection from the non-verbal communication. I think that’s all instinct and muscle memory. Beth looking for a drink has nothing to do with being drunk or partying or anything like that- she’s very clearly trying to provoke Daryl. Provoke him into what...I honestly don’t think she knows.
Provoke him into *anything*. I think she’s honestly a little hesitant about actually taking that drink, because she futzes around with bloody, broken cups, and she’s probably always had a bad taste in her mouth (no pun intended) for what she knew her dad went through (I imagine that Patricia was like a close aunt and might have told her more of her family history than her father or sister ever did). But by the time she gets to the shack with Daryl, and it’s right in front of her, curiosity has gotten enough the better of her, and they’d taken the whole thing that far, so why not? I really think that the episode focused on Beth and Daryl was their introduction as the lead, power couple of the show.
That’s it. I mean, I know I’m biased, but even *objectively*, there has never been another story like this on the show. We saw the destruction of Rick and Lori’s marriage, the complete implosion of Lori and Shane, Andrea and Shane were just sex, and even Maggie and Glenn just met and were in love, and that has been their whole storyline. Karen and Tyreese, Bob and Sasha, they were literally, like, two episodes each, with no build up.
Beth and Daryl have been a Love Story. Intentionally, and coming for a long time. So there.
So, from what I saw, Daryl was already in love with Beth by season 3. By season 4, in 30 Days Without An Accident, he already *knew* he was in love with her. In that tiny moment in Inmates, when Beth is picking berries, he has another *a-ha!* moment when he realizes that this girl that he loves is now, literally, his entire world, and that terrifies him. Daryl left the prison for the sole purpose of keeping Beth safe. If he hadn’t seen her, and thought she was on the bus, he would have fought the Governor’s men to the very last and taken down as many walkers as he could. Gone down with the ship.
But Beth is Daryl’s blinders- everything else goes out the window when it comes to her, and has for a very long time by the time we get to Still. When she told him she didn’t cry any more, and hugged him, it was this tiny moment of pleasure, unexpected, that he probably held on to for a very long time. And when he saw her crying over her pathetic drink of peach schnapps, he had to do something for her (because she is his ENTIRE world).
I think Beth started the I Never game very innocently at first. I think she thought it would just be a silly way to pass the time, and it’s what she’d seen other people doing while drinking. And she was probably also curious about his past, but didn’t think it was going to turn into what it did. And Daryl’s reaction to is one of my favorite moments from Norman in the whole series.
It’s a thousand things at once. He’s angry, he’s hurt, he’s ashamed. I don’t think he’s being *too* aggressive with Beth, I mean, I would never fear for her safety with him or anything. But I could see all these shades of Michael Rooker in his posturing, and probably a slight of Will Dixon.
And Beth absolutely holds her own against Daryl- she’s his perfect match, of course. And he never saw anyone stand up to his father, I’m sure, and it’s something enormous that she stands up to him when he is at his ugliest (*trying* to be his ugliest, trying to horrify her). And she never backs down. They’re standing there, her holding him up from behind (and it’s my headcanon that they kissed after this- I might write this), in broad daylight, and when we see them again, it’s night time and are totally relaxed.
So, what else could have happened in all that time? Their scene on the porch is, in my opinion, in the top two of the most important scenes in the whole show. You got to stay who you are. Stay a person.
(So stop killing the symbols of humanity, Kirkman.)
This episode switches point’s-of-view a couple of times (most of the beginning is in Beth’s POV), but this scene in the moonlight is definitely Daryl’s POV. And that’s how he sees Beth, luminous and gorgeous, and he’s darkness, shadow. (And she has definitely done SOMETHING to soothe him since his breakdown in her arms- I’m telling you, SOMETHING happened.)
When Beth says we should burn it down with that beatific, slightly mischievous smile, Daryl basically just turns into a pile of mush. It’s his third *a-ha!* moment. The girl he loves is his entire world, it’s terrifying, and it is the most precious thing he’s ever been able to call his, ever. He STILL would never consider *doing anything about it*, but this girl is *his*, and he is *hers*, in whatever way she will have him, in whatever way she ever needs him.
Daryl has had many allusions to Baptism By Fire, and while Carol talked about being ‘consumed’, Daryl seems to be cleansed by fire. It ripped his childhood away, and then with Beth, he burned away the pain with it. I mean, this is a stretch, but if you look at their positioning in the last shot of the episode, and think about what they’re doing, and what they’re saying and not saying...it’s kind of like a wedding? I know, I know, I said it was a stretch, but there are definitely vows being made, and just *watch* again.
Like, this whole episode is just my favorite. It’s an excellent, beautifully-written, gorgeously acted one act play, and it unfolds Beth and Daryl’s love story in an almost ethereal way, but it also just says so much, about humanity, about love and possibility and faith and hope.
You know, bless Lawrence Gilliard and Sonequa Martin-Greene, they were really sweet and did what they could with the fifteen seconds of actual story that they got as a romantic couple. And I know that Bob is a comic book character (don’t know about Sasha, or Tyreese), so maybe he ‘had’ to be included, but as far as their romance goes, I’m kind of thinking what’s the point. It was given such little story, such little attention, and Bob’s death, coupled with his own journey and really how he brought Sasha and Maggie together would have been poignant enough. (With Karen and Tyreese, someone needed to be deeply hurt by her death, but they couldn’t kill one of the regulars at that point.)
I’m unsure of how much time there is in between Still and Alone. I’m thinking *at least* two months, and probably no more than four. (I’d be more inclined towards four, except that Judith is the baby that never ages.) I do think it’s pretty significant that Daryl is teaching Beth how to hunt, but I think he taught Rick a thing or two, or at least they hunted together, and I’m sure Rick picked some up just by watching, even if he wasn’t expressly being taught. But really, whether it’s two months or four months, or however long, that is a LONG time to be living and dying by one person, as the last two people on earth, so by the time Alone rolled around, I feel like they were 99% opened up to each other.
The moment at the grave wasn’t expressly romantic, but it shows so much about how far they have come with their connection, their level of comfort. The thing that has always jumped straight out at me is that when Beth takes Daryl’s hand, he’s alread spreading his fingers, fitting himself right against her and when the camera pans back up to their faces, he has no reaction. This is a habit, and they’ve done this many times before, for whatever reason. They have a physical relationship (I could even be persuaded to believe that they might even have a sexual relationship at this point).
Gimple gave the story that there was a kindly undertaker keeping his home open, and burying walkers as people, with dignity, and he got caught on a run, but it just seems so tidy. Even so, I’m thinking that’s probably it, just because there’s so much that needs to be covered, and they can’t go back to *everything*. Daryl still doesn’t know how to use his words, so he shows her how he feels by taking care of her. He still can’t say it (we’re getting there.)
As far as how long he stood there listening to her play, who knows. Daryl can stand stock still and silent for a long time. It might have been fifteen seconds, it might have been fifteen songs. Obviously watching her, unobserved is a small pleasure for him that he allows himself whenever he can (he can always watch her, but with only the two of them, she probably usually knows where he is and what he’s doing).
And Daryl lying in the coffin is probably the biggest *a-ha!* moment of his life. Because you see him fight this losing battle of panic as he watches her, looks up at the ceiling and back to her. He is going to make her his life, he has decided to court her. And that is the significance of their ‘last supper’ (which appears to start out as breakfast).
So he sets the table, and even shares his coveted pig’s feet with her (seriously, that move just makes me *swoon*). And he’s edging around it all day, so it seems, that he is going to try to make life with her, in this beautiful, clean house that has so far provided everything that they’ve been needing. And their conversation!
What changed your mind?
And for once in his life, Daryl Dixon actually makes an attempt to *flirt*, he gives that goofy smile, that obviously feels unnatural on his face.
You know.
She has to know, right? She has to be right there with him. She *has* to know, at this point, right?
What?
And then it’s panic again- has he messed up? Has he read all the signs wrong? He retreats back into shadow. Words, as always, fail him, and he gives as little as possible.
Mm-mmm…
But she is soft, flickering candlelight, too beautiful to look at, and she still smiles. (She still sings.)
Don’t ‘mm-mmm’. What changed your mind?
And then that calm comes over him- it seriously might be the most significant moment of his life. He cannot hide any more, he is 100% open, and he is offering himself to her.
Oh.
And even though it’s kind of out of character for Daryl Dixon to *ever* be caught off guard, the moment of his life could probably do that to him. I honestly have no idea if Beth was *seriously* Surrounded by walkers. (And once again, it’s just too neat and tidy that Gorman and whoever were just driving down the road, alongside this huge pack of walkers.)
She BETTER expand on that oh. She better get a chance to. And I’m going to leave that there.
I think Daryl was put with Joe’s group for a few reasons, narratively. Mostly to bring all the storylines together, but yeah, part of it was to show Daryl how far he’d come. At one point, he might not have felt at home with these men, but probably where he felt he belonged. Joe, I don’t know, man, he’s got this weird hard-on for Daryl, just kind of fixates on him right away.
I kind of imagine that Joe, at first, shows some of the positive traits that Will Dixon had (if you can call it that). Daryl always wanted to please his father, and it probably means something to him at first that Joe takes a liking to him. Len’s just giving Daryl a hard time, picking on the new guy, but it says something HUGE that even when someone who has never laid eyes on her indirectly insults Beth (calls her a ‘bitch’, a ‘piece of tail’, insinuates all kinds of nasty things, calling her a ‘little one’), Daryl is ready to do murder. Daryl has learned that there’s other sides of death and the ugliness in the world- he even tries to give Len a little bit of dignity.
He pulls off though, I’m not sure if it’s because Len had already done wrong to him, and Daryl didn’t think he deserved to be treated like a human (though I don’t think that’s the case), or if it’s because he’s trying to tamp down what he felt when he was with Beth. (Already starting to lose hope.)
So much has been made of the small part Beth plays in A, and the sherriff’s hat that it is just Thing #8717817892823479 on the Team We Right Manifesto.
I think that Daryl was literally laying down his life for Rick, Carl and Michonne, with no hesitation. I think Daryl knew they were bad but not rape kids (or rape in general), murder in cold blood kind of bad. And maybe he was turning a bit of a blind eye when he thought that he had no hope of ever seeing his family ever again. I love that scene between Daryl and Rick.
And while Daryl was revisiting his daddy issues with Joe, Rick gave him the measure of peace he’d been searching for his whole life, he calls him his brother, and it’s this note of love and respect from man that Daryl admires so much, probably the best father he’s ever seen (not that Rick is flawless but given what Daryl has for comparison, he’s excellent. And he does love his kids.) I always thought that Daryl’s word choice there was odd, and obviously.
Rick has a lot going on in that moment, but if I were him, it sounds like she’s turned. And that’s a nice little Brick/Brickyl moment there. But Rick has a ton of other things to worry about in this moment, so...
Season 4 definitely goes down as my favorite season, and the way 5a has seemed to just go out with a COMPLETELY NONSENSICAL whimper...we’ll just have to see.
Personally, I don’t think that Maggie really believed Beth was alive. First of all, they were being held captive in a box when he told her how she was taken, and that he’d tried to follow her. But whisked off in a speeding car with blacked out windows doesn’t sound too promising, and they had other things to focus on at that point.
Like I’ve said before, Daryl has been, at least once a season, in some situation where I *knew* he wasn’t going to die (Norman Reedus has nothing to worry about, I’m sure), but I was like, How the HELL is he getting out of this one? But Daryl has this calm that comes over him, it’s not like a panic, it’s like, HOW am I going to get out of this one? Focus, Dixon. Rick did this too. Glenn gritted his teeth and tried to brace himself for the blow. Bob tried to bargain. It was an interesting mix. And I don’t think it’s that Glenn has less of a will to live than the others, but I think his mind doesn’t go to the desperate place of doing *anything* to survive. Rick is getting out of there, he is getting back to his son, and there is never any doubt in his mind. Bob’s tactic is really the most interesting, kind of a cross between Glenn and Rick. He is not accepting this, but he still wants to believe that men will be reasonable.
Daryl though...I said this before also, I think that he has always expected to meet a violent, gruesome end, it was just a matter of when. He keeps fighting out of them, but I don’t think he quite knows what he’s fighting towards (at this point, with such a very faint glimmer of hope).
No surprises here, Daryl’s reunion with Carol and seeing Rick reunite with Judith and Tyreese with Sasha, Daryl’s reactions felt ALL about Beth.
And when he takes off like a bat out of hell after the speeding car with Carol, it just proves how close she has been to the forefront of his mind, of his thoughts, and, almost unbelievably, he has held onto the hope she showed him. She had *that much* of a profound effect on him.
I have a *lot* of questions about Grady, *still*. It just seems so...that’s it? I don’t think that Gorman was the only rapist cop. I don’t think that only the old men got beaten. Just none of it adds up (I’ll get back to that in a second.)
Consumed felt, in every way, like Carol’s ‘coda’ (no pun intended). She seemed like she was pulling it together to do one last thing for good, but was ready to lay down her weary burden. I still have too many questions, because Consumed was the point that the series felt like it was veering from what it was, what it had been to...something a little bit more non-linear, dreamlike, less real.
We will have to see. (And soon.)
Not to be a big cheesebucket, but all of the fire symbolism reminds me of Billy Joel’s “We Didn’t Start The Fire”, the part in the end where it goes when we are gone, will it still burn on and on… Carol talks about different parts of her, different lives burning away, like it was something out of her control. Maybe it was. And Daryl insists that she try (asks her to? demands her to? tries to make himself believe she is?) In his mind, it is a *choice*.
And Crossed and Coda are *really* the point that the series feels like it’s wandered into a dream world. I don’t know. We’ll have to see how this shakes out.
The way I have reasoned Beth attacking Dawn is that she was aiming for her throat (her carotid artery). And I am 100%, fully TEAM DELUSIONAL.
I'M SO SCARED.
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[+] You guys, tonight is the night. It's the night The Walking Dead returns, and the start of what I'm sure is going to be a complete knot in my stomach for the next two months about Beth Greene. I just wanted to thank you all for your patience for all of my emotional vomit from the *past* two months.
kadie_darling has been running a full series marathon over at the beth_daryl community and we've been having an absolutely EPIC conversation. But I wanted to throw it out to all of you, so I'm copying and pasting my own thoughts on pretty much the whole series (with a very Beth Greene/Beth&Daryl point of view, of course).
This will probably be at least a couple of entries. It was 20 pages in a word doc (why can't I focus like this for fic.)
I think the inclusion of Morgan in this season is HUGE sign of what is to come for Beth. I know that 'Team Delusional' is our name, but it is feeling less and less like delusions, you know?
The FIRST time I saw Merle, I don't think I had too much of an opinion of him. I knew that the character Daryl existed (I don't know if I knew he was Daryl *Dixon*, and I don't know if I caught Merle's last name either). I really thought that Merle was just meant to be an antagonist in that one episode, and then when they went back to the camp, and we met Daryl, I was like, Oh. So THAT'S what this guy is going to be about.
Michael Rooker handcuffed to the roof as the cold open of Tell It To The Frogs is a MASTERFUL performance. When I rewatched it, I really took in a lot of what he was saying, even though a lot of it is hysterics. But it's this never begged before, not gonna beg now that really chilled me. Now, not to skip ahead too much, but we know that Merle and Daryl were both beaten by their father, and eventually Merle left home and then came back for Daryl. There was already a good bit of damage done, and I don't think it was ever an ideal situation, but for a time, Daryl was protected by Merle, and made to feel safe by him. Merle never had that- no one to protect him, no one to come back for him (as far as he knew then). At first glance, Daryl and Norman Reedus fall into that dirty-sexy, anti-hero cliché that has been fandom's darling for a while. I have a line in the fic that I'm working on that just says that Daryl's life didn't change much after the ZA. He used to spend weeks at a time in the woods, sleeping on the ground and eating what he caught and killed. He was definitely better equipped than most. I think that Rick definitely put out the first olive branch with Daryl when he offered to go back and get Merle (actually, the be specific, *Lori* volunteered Rick, when she had first begged him to stay...let's not forget that). I think that, at first, Daryl stuck with Rick because he needs a leader, or did at that time. A missing scene I would love to see played out would have been Daryl and Merle deciding to split up, with Merle going on the run with Glenn, Andrea and T-Dog (and that other guy) and Daryl staying at camp to hunt.
If and when Beth returns (WHEN), I don't think it will be as...joyful as when Rick returned to Carl and Lori. I think that there will be a lot of disbelief, but Maggie will be the one to get there first. I think it will be completely unbelievable to Daryl for a long time. And as far as Beth's state of mind, if she's with Morgan, I don't know if they're going to be *purposely* looking for Rick and the gang, or if she's shut off that Searching/Hopeful part of herself and is just in survival mode.
And we're back. Daryl and Rick now are like complete opposite versions of themselves then. Of course, they've built up trust now, but even then, they worked together well, just had that natural chemistry together. But total opposites- now Daryl is the wait and see, and Rick is the, they don't get to live. I forget how it's explained in s3, but maybe Merle did go back for Daryl? They left the campsite pretty soon after the events of this episode, and maybe he had to hole up for a while and give his arm a rest.
I don't think that Daryl had a particularly close relationship with Jim- that's not what that scene spoke to me. Through his time with Rick in Atlanta, learning honor and loyalty, and seeing actual *morality* and humanity with Glenn refusing to treat their friends and family like monsters, Daryl is slowly starting to pick up on the perspective of the real world, or the world before the ZA where people were relatively nice and normal and most of them probably wished they were back there (at that point anyway). Daryl just kind of stood in the back when they all said goodbye to Jim, and watched, and it was a show of respect, because people are people.
My favorite moment of s1, hands down, is Rick returning to Carl and Lori.
Click to viewIt's not a very good quality clip, but apart from Carl's joy, I love everyone's shocked faces. This was probably the first honestly good thing they had seen since the ZA.
In s1, Rick was definitely my favorite character. It was completely his story in those days.
Hardest character to lose was probably Jacqui. She just seems like such a nice woman, such a good friend to everyone. I do have to say that I didn't realize until the very end that she was meant to be T-Dog's wife, or girlfriend, or whatever.
S1 was really good, really tight. It all seems a whole lot more *simple* than what it is now.
So, not knowing anything really about the press or the fandom when s2 was airing, I'm willing to bet that Daryl was probably one of the more popular characters/actors of the first season (BS2 had just come out, also), and it seemed like a very conscious decision that the show was moving him into more of a hero role (or at least an anti-hero role). I think that Daryl definitely had a man!crush on Rick from going to Atlanta, seeing the way he dealt with the people at the nursing home, and since then, through the CDC and all, he was so desperate to prove his worth as part of the group (while also keeping himself separate). Tracking and hunting were his strengths and his thing, and while I don't think he purposefully kept his knowledge to himself, I think he might have been afraid of being usurped at the time, of his purpose with the group.
Back to sort of the show purposefully putting Daryl/Norman front and center, I feel like even into s3, even though this has never really been a 'ship show', I think that the Andrea/Daryl scene was really just a behind-the-scenes chem test. Because they never really went back to that, and other than just being part of the larger group together, I didn't really see them having such a special bond on their own. But the one thing I will say is that Daryl drops a few stories about his childhood in s2 and s3, and it's always with his bow in his hand, while he's out tracking something, and I think just doing something that he's so good at and is so natural for him allows for him to open up, without thinking about it.
It's almost impossible to not try to figure out the long game they had for Beth, because she was so looked over, and just, like, in the background for most of this season, definitely no more important than Patricia, and I think had even less to do than Jimmy in this first bunch of episodes, but from what she's grown to...I really do believe that they've had a long game for her all along.
And Cherokee Rose now...Now, I know that some people ship both Beth/Daryl and Carol/Daryl and I don't mean this to offend anyone but I really see the basis of Carol and Daryl's relationship like that as surrogate mother and child. And I don't mean that at ALL because of their relative ages (I know that Norman and Melissa are only a few years apart). Once again, I'm trying not to bring future seasons into this discussion, but I'm wondering how much of Daryl's backstory the writers would have figured out at this point- either way, everyone could infer that Daryl might not have had the best childhood. I think that Daryl's first 'attraction', if you will (I don't mean that as a romantic attraction) was being on the flip side of a child who lost his mother and watching a mother grieve for her child probably both brought up some old wounds and gave him peace. And he so wanted to make that right for her, the way no one could for him.
Now it's time to play, This Is My Headcanon, and I'm Sticking To It.
I've read some really lovely s2 AU's where Beth and Daryl form a connection and attachment on the farm (in fact, I'm reading a new one right now,You’ve Got My Heart/You’ve Got My Soul, but in my personal headcanon, I really don't think that they *noticed, noticed* each other during this time period. I think that Daryl was really focused on finding Sophia, and I think Beth was really lost in herself. Even up to current episodes, she hardly ever talks about it, but losing her mother (even while she was turned and 'safe' in the barn) completely turned her world upside down and I think in the last days on the farm, that's all that consumed her.
And that being said...I don't think that Beth's relationship with Jimmy was that deep, and probably not that physical. I think that Hershel might have been over-exaggerating chasing them around. Once again, here is my personal head canon: Beth and Jimmy were childhood sweethearts who'd been dating for a few months before the ZA, and when the world went to hell, it took Jimmy's parents with it (why else would he be at the farm). And with Beth losing half of her own family, I think that having each other was a comfort, but they were probably both too scared and sad to really act like teenagers about first loves. I'm sure that Hershel had the requisite Under my roof, you will respect my rules talk with Jimmy, but there was no need to *really* chase them around.
And a little bit of canon-picking...I believe that Glenn said Maggie was 22 at that time, and Maggie said that Beth was 16, so...6 year age gap. (This is why I'm very sure that Maggie and Beth are full sisters, because Maggie said that Hershel married Annette when she was 13.)
I mean, my perspective is biased, because I watched the show the first time through, knowing so many people on my f-list adored Beth, so I immediately found the things to love about her, when she hardly had anything to do, and was basically blending in with a whole slew of new characters who were basically just background scenery for a long time. But in the long game of her character, I think it says something that she was such a quiet, you-won't-even-notice-her, little slip of a thing, to the warrior she became.
I do NOT see Beth's death like Sophia's. And because I'm such a psycho about her, I almost find that insulting that some people (including Norman Reedus himself) have implied tha there are parallels.
I think...that Beth overcame her grief the only way she knew how, the only way she could. And truthfully, I don't think anyone helped her. I think that her sister, her father, Lori, Carol, Rick, etc. were *kind* to her, but it's true what they say- the only way out is through. And she did the work herself, and she eventually just put it behind her. If anything, I think she committed herself to taking care of her father.
I don't think that Daryl's suspicions of Shane were really that suspicious, if you know what I mean. I think he was objective- Rick and Dale (and even Hershel to an extent) had personal issues with Shane. Daryl didn't. Daryl figuring it out was more detective work than anything else. I think he earned his spot as second in command, not by being Rick's friend, but because he definitely has the most physical survival skills.
Even though Beth had made her decision to live, I don't think she (or anyone for that matter) would really be capable of rational *thought* while being ripped away from the only home they'd ever known, and saw it literally torn down by actual monsters. There's a lot of loss in between the farm and settling the prison, and I think that for a long time, none of this really processes for Beth (losing her family, the farm, all the terrible things she sees). She doesn't process it because they are literally in hide-fight-run-survival mode, wiping with tree leaves, eating grass and mudsnakes or whatever and just trying not to freeze to death.
Hardest character to lose in this time is tough, because everyone loves Dale, obviously, and Shane is controversial, but Jon Bernthal is just so magnificent. Rick is slowly starting to fill the void he left, but he still has something to live for (his kids) and Shane's life and future was just a black void. He literally had nothing to lose. He was terrifying.
I have *very* extensive thoughts on the winter between s2 and s3. There were ten of them, in two cars and Daryl's bike in the beginning, and they grabbed another truck some time before s3. That's very close quarters- no privacy, and for Beth (and Maggie, and Hershel), this is most likely the first time that they had really live off the land (sleeping outside, no plumbing, etc.) And the way it happened- they literally were ripped off the land with the clothes on their backs. It definitely wasn't *easy* for Lori and Carol and everyone to leave their houses, (and they probably didn't think they'd be leaving forever) but they had some warning, a chance to pack, etc. Beth, Maggie and Hershel had to sink or swim. I think that Beth and Carl's friendship fostered naturally out of being the youngest and the relative 'kids'. And obviously he had a crush on her, and she just was a kind person in general, but I think she was also happy to have someone who specifically looked out for her (that she was aware of, I have thoughts on Daryl during this time period too). The Parting Glass is even more bittersweet now. The song is lovely and poignant itself. But she seemed almost nervous before she starts and I do have it head-cannoned that someone spoke to her about singing and being quiet in general and this might have even been around the time that Daryl called her singing 'annoying', and that obviously stuck with her.
That screw around? scene is a complete and total JOKE. It is two friends joking around (or her giving him a hard time, really) and there is not one ounce of romantic subtext or longing or seriousness between them.
I really like the Daryl/Rick dynamic in s3. I think the most interesting thing about it is how they have come from such opposite places in life, met in the middle, and are almost starting to cross over to the other side, but even taking it more extreme. (Rick, coming from a 'nice, normal' background and being a basically good guy to a psychopath who will bite out a person's jugular. Daryl, coming from poverty and abuse and leading a life of crime - at least, that's my take - to becoming this quiet, thoughtful leader.)
I think that Beth and Lori's friendship is very overlooked because it happened mostly offscreen. Also, from what I understand, Sarah Wayne Callies is pretty ignored in this fandom anyway. And frankly, I think that Maggie never mentioning Beth after the prison is...I really don't know what to think, because I *do* think that Maggie loves Beth and if Beth were in danger *in front of her*, Maggie would kill or die for her. But she's out-of-sight, out-of-mind. Something else I've realized- Maggie told Beth to get on the bus, but when she finds it and kills all the walkers, she never mentions her, just that she's trying to find Glenn.
In my head, Merle is seven years older than Daryl, and most people think he's older than that (but I devised that number, because Michael Rooker is fourteen years older than Norman, but I thought that was too great of a gap so I just halved it). That's seven years of having to face their father by himself, and I'm not really sure how much their mother might have interfered. And when Daryl came along, innocent little baby, I think Merle did what he could to protect him (probably not too much). But he knew that 'sweetness' wouldn't save him in that family so probably *any* sweetness would be too much in his eyes.
Well, it's highly speculated that Morgan will be the one to find Beth (but I guess that really makes him her Michonne). As for who will find them from the group first, gosh I really hope it's Daryl. But I just don't want it to be Noah. (It's much quieter, but I've seen some press stuff and some interview stuff with Tyler James Williams where he, at least, seems to see a very deep connection between Noah and Beth. I've got my shipper defenses up.)
I see lots of similarities between Grady and Woodbury- clean, relatively modern looking, with things kind of looking the way it did 'before'. But I think after Woodbury, once we saw Grady, we knew it was too good to be true.
Uh, so far Beth's 'death' has been a slap in the fucking face. We're just going to have to see. Lori's death, on the other hand, I think is the pivotal moment for the whole series, particularly if you still see Andy Lincoln as the star of the show. T-Dog...I kind of feel bad for him. He's clearly a core member of the group, having been there since s1 but he never had any sort of real storyline or character moment other than just being a good guy.
And I would just like to add that while he's certainly not doing a jig, Daryl's reaction to Carol's 'death' is nothing like how he was in 5.08. Nothing like it.
Ahhh...And back to thoughts on Daryl, during s2 and s3. I think that this is where he fell in love with her. He didn't know it at the time, and there was never any thought of *Doing Anything About It*, but with their close proximity, no privacy, etc., they all got to know each other extremely well. Maybe not trading life stories, but knowing each other's habits, mannerisms, instincts, etc. He knows she's a nurturer and caretaker, he knows that Carl is probably the most fragile person there (with Rick in the tombs and the baby can be held by anyone).
I think that Merle had a kid. Being good with kids is instinct, knowing how to properly hold and feed an infant is learned technique. And no hesitation- that's muscle memory. I think that Merle definitely had a kid, and Daryl was part of its life for a little while, but maybe the mom just didn't want any part of the Dixons and that stopped Uncle Daryl.
After Lori's death, I think that the way Beth gravitates so towards Judith is indicative of how close she and Lori were. Also, I can see Beth identifying with losing a mother, of being forgotten or looked over. I think it's still a little while yet before she becomes Judith's regular caregiver (the day that Hershel brought Rick out and formally started farming with him).
I don't think that Daryl was particularly *close* with his mother...but she was all he had, and given the comparison, she was obviously his favorite parent. And that's going to rock you, no matter what.
Not to harp on it, not to bash, but yes, Daryl was *very* sad when he thought Carol was dead. They all were. But it was NOT like in Coda.
And I have to say, it's hard for me to put myself if Maggie's head, because the way I view the show, she's basically supporting character in Beth's story. But while I do think that Maggie loves her family and would do anything for them, there is a part of her that just wanted to escape- maybe the farm, maybe country life, maybe memories of a dead mother that she feels guilty of in front of a loving stepmother. I think that Glenn was her first way out of that. And I think that they grew to love each other deeply, but that came later, out of necessary companionship and sexual chemistry. I think pretty soon after she met him, and certainly by the point they got kidnapped, in Maggie's eyes, it was her and Glenn against the world, and she *hopes* everyone else is okay, but this is all she really *needs*.
I think Daryl just has his general distrust of Michonne in s3- if he had known Merle was at Woodbury, it wouldn't have changed anything. He just would have gone quicker, and more recklessly.
I think that Beth caught on that Axel was checking her out- and not that she'd ever entertain anything with him, but I do think she's very starved for attention at this point. And he's not being *so* awful, just asking pretty general questions, so she's polite back.
Daryl...I mean, it's hard in this world, but he's had like at least 12 points in the show where I *knew* he wasn't going to die (I think Reedus is far too valued over there) but I was like, HOW in the HECK is he going to get out of this one? And I think he fights his way out of every jam he's ever in, but there's also this calm that comes over him, because I think that (at this point), he does expect to have a violent, gruesome end, it's just a matter of when.
I didn't read anything at all into Beth's kiss on Rick's cheek when they came back to the prison at first, but on my third (or maybe fourth?) rewatch of 3.09, I do see Rick watch her walk off with a sort of...longing? Wanting? Something very bittersweet. And I have now read a good handful of fics that base off that moment, so go Brick Fandom.
I don't think there was really a Right or Wrong with Daryl going off with Merle. It was something he had to do. I think he knew that it could end very badly and he was willing to take the 50/50 chance. Carol's reaction to Daryl not coming back...actually, it was (a less panicked version) a lot like Daryl when Carol got hit by the car. But still, it was like…how incredibly sad, we're one less down, one less of a family...got to move on though. NOBODY RAN DOWN THE STREET FOR A FULL NIGHT AND DAY AFTER EACH OTHER. (We're not there yet though.)
That scene with Beth and Maggie on the bunk with Judith is, I think my favorite scene of the two of them. It just speaks so much to Beth's old soul and she knew she couldn't *do* anything about it, and Beth really isn't a you wanna talk about it? kind of girl (she could be but if the person says no she doesn't push). But I love that she just gently puts the baby in her sister's arms, tiny, beautiful, all hope, and in this way also gives Maggie something to do. And it's really comforting and beautiful.
I think Daryl is realizing how much he has changed by s3. That there's more than one way to do things (scavenging with Glenn, other methods of survival with Rick). Daryl saved that family, because in season 1, he learned honor and loyalty from Rick and Glenn. And he heard a baby crying. And (as is my headcanon), Merle's child made him a sucker for babies for life.
I think...I don't know, Merle not knowing that Daryl had been abused always rang pretty untrue to me. I know that's the case, and it's some great work in that scene from Reedus and Rooker, but it's just strange. Daryl and Merle had lived together for years. He *never* saw him without a shirt on? (Although Norman does this great little panic of quickly wrapping his shirt around his back again, like he really has had this modesty his whole life.) I think that Daryl cared that Merle would be accepted at the prison- but he was also confident enough that he would be a peacekeeper. But also...when we first see him turn away in the woods, I'm imagining Merle follows him soon enough, so they are reconciled there.
As Beth starts to peek up more this season, maybe these were subtle (not sure how intentional, but it was happening all along) hints that Beth is growing up. When we meet Beth, she is at a curious crossroads, agewise, because she's 16 years old, but in her world, she's 100. I think she felt 100 years old since her mother died. But as close as she always is to Hershel (in proximity, physically close), either she's clinging to him or he's clinging to her, hoping to hold on to that last thread of childhood.
I've written in the past (and slowly getting back into it) and one of the most pleasurable things for me, as a writer, is when a background character that I might not thought so much of at first, starts really showing me their voice and I want to write more and more for them. I'm wondering if that's what happened with Gimple and Beth, or they had a long game for her, and just took their time getting there. (I'm betting on the former.)
I think Beth absolutely chose Hold On as a morale booster, and I love how the whole group (even Merle) hushed down to watch/listen to her. I also think that Emily sounds awesome on it.
I...am not quick enough to decipher anything on Morgan's walls, other than the stuff the show focused on. Due to all of the theories...Morgan finding Beth just seems like fact to me. All of it adds up. I don't really see them having any connection here yet (in the middle of s3. And it's all up in the air of what state of mind Beth will be in when/if (IF) they do reunite with the whole group. Maybe amnesia, maybe full-on rage (my own personal theory), actively seeking them, not thinking they will ever find them...It's all up in the air. The one connection I see is that Beth has lost her father (and the rest of her family, as far as she knows) and Morgan has lost his child (and wife). So maybe there's something there (but that's also almost everyone in this world). Something else I thought of, no real evidence to back it up, is that Morgan might be Noah's father, or related to him? I don't think he's ever said that he DIDN'T have children other than Duane.
Oh my gosh, when Beth fired that gun, without a word, even though I already loved her and knew that amazing things were coming for her, I was like I AM GOING TO LOVE THIS GIRL UNTIL THE END OF TIME, FOREVER AND EVER AMEN.
I liked his interactions with Martinez. It reminded me of a scene in War Horse, where a German soldier and an English soldier work together to free a horse and acknowledge that their lives are pretty much the same.
As for comparisons between Philip and Milton, and Dawn and Dr. Edwards...well, I think that Milton genuinely *likes* and admires Philip, or at least used to and is clinging to that. I just think that Dr. Edwards is weak, and a suck-up. (I literally have no interest ever in any character who was introduced at Grady...and Dr. Edwards was the worst, least interesting one.) And Andrea and Beth now...It's tough, because Andrea's death was really bad, but it's just this nagging feeling that everything in 5.07 and 5.08 just didn't feel right, didn't really feel like it was happening. Andrea's death arc, while being very *sad*, felt on par, right for the show and this story.
I don't even know if it had registered to Daryl yet how much he has changed. I think that Merle's death affected Daryl in two extreme ways. It broke his heart, of course, but I think that, after a time, it might feel like necessary heartbreak. Like he needed to put that part of his life solidly in the past, that part couldn't survive.
I think, in the beginning, Beth was 'defaulted' to Judith. And I think that Hershel would volunteer her for this job, in his efforts to keep his own child safe.
I am just...I will say it many other times, I'm sure, but I am just so SURE that Beth's 'death' in 5.08 wasn't real or was misleading. We will have to continue this conversation over time...
Beth was definitely, solidly my favorite by the end of s3.
I really, really love s3. S4 probably has my favorite episodes, but s3 is just so great for the overall story, the overall family, showing the team element.
Hardest character to lose...well, actually I think it served the story well, but I have to say Merle, just because I think it shaped so much for Daryl going forward.
Favorite parts were just BETH and Michael Rooker (Merle is a villain, for sure, but I loved Rooker's portrayal).
At this point, I'm going to go with Zach was introduced to open up the door for Beth and Daryl. I'm so convinced of the long game between them, that's really the only explanation that seems feasible. And I would like to add: I *like* Zach. I think he's very sweet, seems very stuck on Beth. Before he left, I get the feeling that he really wanted to tell her that he loves her (I think love comes quickly in this world, if you have a decent connection with someone, you just go for it) but she's so breezy and he just decided to save it. Sad. And Daryl seems to really like him too, good-naturedly going along with his game (What did Daryl Dixon do??) Daryl comments that he'd been at it for six weeks, so that's a good amount of time for them to build some sort of relationship (I saw a little hero worship from Zach to Daryl). And Beth goes right to him, with a sweet smile, for a kiss. I *like* Zach. And I think of how exciting that must have been for her- a cute, sweet guy her age who had his own car WHERE THEY COULD LISTEN TO CD'S. I don't think she was madly in love with him, but I think all of these things added up to being good enough for a little bit of happiness. I just want to make it clear that I really did like him, because he seems to get a bad rap in fic, for being abusive (no, didn't see any of that at all) or his attention being unwanted from Beth, or even just being boring.
And her reaction (I don't cry any more)- I don't think that has to do with lack of emotion, or lack of caring about people. I think that she carries a bit of guilt about her suicide attempt, for what she put her father and sister through and is just so committed to being pleasing, being okay, so that she can be in service to other people at this point (taking care of her father, the children at the prison, etc.) She's going to make herself okay so that no one else has to worry about her.
I think a lot of stuff happened between s2 and s3 that we didn’t really get to see the effect of, until s4. Like, in s3, they are in panic mode the whole time, and in s4, they have established a life, and we do actually get to see how it’s changed their personalities.
And Beth's cell- it's another common set up in fic to have Beth just being at the prison all the time, and she'll ask Daryl to train her for runs. Now, I love that set up as much as the next shipper, but her cell indicates, to me, that she does go for runs. First of all, during the winter between the farm and the prison, they were basically living out in the open, and they all had to jump into the action at one time or another, even Beth, even Carl, even Lori. Of course, probably Rick and Daryl (and T-Dog, Glenn and Maggie to an extent) were *point* when it was time to fight and clear, but they all had to be able to do it. But the point is, Beth already knows how to kill walkers, shoot guns and clear rooms, so she definitely goes on the occasional run because her ‘cell’ is basically like an attic. It’s *filled to the brim* with things that speak of her soul and her artistic tendencies. Like, I could see if people routinely brought books back on runs, or maybe Maggie might grab something for her on occasion, but while they are searching for formula, clothing, necessities, etc., there’s no way anyone is thinking to bring back a big birdcage and quirky, quaint old signs. The other things is that her walls have a lot of the kids’ drawings, so I’m thinking she’s definitely a favorite (I imagine her being especially close to Mikah).
I think that the folks at the prison’s opinion of Daryl is pretty accurate for all he does for everyone, and a little, I think it was the show’s meta on how popular Norman is.
Damn romance novel is defeinitely foreshadowing, and it’s also Daryl figuratively pulling on Beth’s ponytail, as well as giving Zach a little good-natured guff because I think he is very aware of their age difference seeing them look so happy and young and free.
And then, THE SCENE in 4.01, here’s my big moment! It was at this point that I realized that Daryl already loved Beth and what’s more, already *knew* he loved Beth. We don’t get to see his a-ha moment where he figured it out. But at this point, it’s already there, enough that he is worried enough about her that it’s something that he feels the need to do himself. Glenn is the natural choice, as her brother-in-law and family, or one might even say Michonne, with her probably being comforted if a woman told her, but Daryl takes it on himself. And it’s just so clear in the look on his face when she hugs him and then when he tentatively reaches for her elbow. It’s this very tiny second of pleasure that he allows himself.
I really like the scene where Beth wraps Michonne’s ankle. A lot of things needed to be set up in 4.01 and 4.02, a lot of it through inference, and Michonne’s place as truly one of the family was a big one, because she was just starting to get to know everyone in the end of s3. But another thing was that she still held herself a little at arm’s distance, with all of them being so happy to see her again when she returns. It seems her routine to stay a week or so, leave for a few weeks and so on. So without having any sort of regularity, I don’t think she would ever rotate in to really lend a hand with the kids. I don’t think that there’s a *story* reason that Beth is so isolated, I think it’s just that she wasn’t a huge part of those plotlines (all the more why it was important to ‘set up’ her and Daryl in 4.01). And she went in to take care of Judith, it seemed like she was sort of in charge (along with Carl) as ‘head baby-sitter’, which is a legitimate responsibility there (and I don’t think anyone would argue).
In a lot of fics, Judith is almost portrayed as Beth’s daughter and I do think that she loved her that much, but I’d love to read a really nitty-gritty look at the time Beth was more or less raising this baby girl. In fics, Judith is generally a gorgeous and adorable, perfect cooing infant who smiles and snuggles all day, and I would love to see Beth struggling with sleep deprivation and poop and colic and feeling at the end of her rope because she’s a teenager (and in my headcanon, still a virgin) and she’s not supposed to be a *mother* yet, but that’s what happened, and she loves this little girl more than anything, but still...How is this her life?
I think that Daryl’s leadership came naturally as Rick stepped back, but it also happened *gradually*, so he was able to build up his confidence to act without overthinking it first.
It’s in this episode that Beth says the famous we’ve all got jobs to do- and that’s really where I felt a lot of her guilt from her suicide. What needs to be done? Okay. She’ll do it. I think she’s just been trying to keep the kids occupied. Singing, story time, whatever worked on that day. I did have it in my mind that she was teaching the little girls how to braid hair, and that’s why she always had that little braid, but I now know she had that since the beginning of s4. I know that certain Native American tribes would braid a strand of hair to honor the dead, and I could see Beth doing this as a way of mourning. She doesn’t cry any more, but she still mourns. I don’t think that she’s necessarily *going through the motions* (she might be, a little in the immediate aftermath of Zach’s death, but I think she picked herself up pretty quick), but I think Beth really forces herself to not dwell on her own heart and her own pain, so just keeps pushing through.
I think Daryl is absolutely (and rightfully) pissed at Bob. Not at first, not for his ‘confession’ of trying to grab the wine at the Big Lots (and being responsible for Zach’s death), because Daryl understands demons haunting a person. So he’s cool with that. But to do it again, and almost let himself get taken over for a bottle (not to mention *not* filling his bag with necessary medication for the people at the prison) and endangering the rest of their crew, that, Daryl cannot forgive. But even so, Daryl is still more in control of his faculties- they still have the prison, and things are bad, but they’re still okay. He still has his safety net, and that allows him to keep his veneer of civility and his temper.
I think Beth honestly isn’t bothered what she does, so long as she helps them all keep going another day. I think if her dad was sick, she’d be at his side, nursing him. But Judith needs to be taken care of, and I don’t think that Beth ever feels inconvenienced by that. And I think that one of the biggest things that bonds her with the baby is that they have both lost their mothers.
I know that Beth and Daryl have been a long game, I’m not certain how long. Definitely from the beginning of s4 (therefore, at least thought about in the writers’ room since the end of s3), but if it has been *from the start* (and I *don’t* think that’s the case, and put a pin in that thought), I think it’s very intentional that Hershel and Daryl led pretty similar childhoods. Abusive, alcoholic parents, a lot of regret in their past. For these reasons, I think Hershel would be at least *okay* with Daryl as a son-in-law. It would depend on when it happened (and I love all fics that start a relationship with them at any point in canon). At the farm, I don’t think he would have been cool with it, not the least because of her age. But at the prison, after their winter on the road, Hershel knew what a good man Daryl was, and things that matter so much in this world* (for the record, I’m not condoning men in their 30’s/40’s going after teenagers in this REAL WORLD, for the record) did not matter in this new world. And thinking about what might make a good mate for one of his girls, if Hershel had his own choice, I think the top list of his qualifications would be can this man protect my daughter. (As well as being kind, Beth being happy, etc.)
The thing is, Beth actually has never been able to say goodbye to anyone. Her mother and brother were turned, Jimmy, Lori, etc. It would be really nice if she ever got to reflect on that, that death just happens and you never know when (also goes back to I don’t cry any more, because it’s going to keep happening, and it’s too exhausting to break your heart over it every time). But also...this is true for almost everyone in this world, that you don’t get to say goodbye, so I don’t know if it’s specifically Beth-focused.
I think Daryl’s reaction to what Carol did is very...Daryl. I can understand him not wanting to believe it, because (here we go again) I think Daryl has her on a pedestal as a motherly, kind figure, and it’s so unthinkable. So he’s angry about it, at first, but we never get to see it really unfold, but he’s not, like...shouting and threatening and whatnot, so I think he would have come around on it.
Daryl hands Beth a machine gun. This is very key- he’s doing it slowly and carefully. He wouldn’t put it in her hands if he wasn’t 100% sure that she knew how to use it. I had never picked up on the *order* of the reactions after Hershel’s death. Beth to Daryl to Maggie must be very intentional, because Beth and Maggie are in the same shot, so them together would have been natural. So I’m back to Beth and Daryl’s long game- and Daryl already knowing that he was in love with Beth. The prison looks nearly empty by the time we see Beth and Daryl together. I think she was looking for Judith, and the kids, and Maggie and Glenn and I think that Daryl never had any intention of leaving the prison. He was going to fight to the last man and take down as many as he could, go down with the ship. But when he saw her, he had to get her out of there.
And yes, Coda had the normal closing credits theme because BETH IS ALIVE.
I really love all of 30 Days Without An Accident for showing all the ways they had carved a life out that prison.
Hershel’s death devastated me. But truthfully, I understood *why* everyone on this show has died (up until Beth).
S4 is my absolute favorite season. And it makes me sad that it got panned critically, and by a lot of fans, because I would happily watch that set up forever.
I’ve talked a little bit before about Beth’s journey through the writers’ eyes, and I truly believe that Beth was introduced as kind of an afterthought. Like, Hershel had storylines, and Maggie had storylines (and they’re both in the comics, correct?) but then there was Patricia and Jimmy and Beth, and I think that these three characters were wait and see’s for the writers. These three characters were introduced and not all of them were meant to survive, but the writers (and directors, and I’ll bet some of the s1 actors gave feedback) saw who had the most potential. And in the end, for whatever reason, that was Beth, and Emily Kinney.
And throughout s3, they gave her a few more little moments, showed how she grew (I don’t know why it’s such a common concept in fic that Beth doesn’t know how to fight until she’s on the run with Daryl, she’s very clearly given a few lookout points in s3), connected her more to the Grimes family (and Rick is still the lead of the show, I guess), and the writers grew to love her, and really, I know I’m biased, but they opened 4b with her narrative, because this show is basically becoming All About Beth, and her running through the woods, fighting off walkers, while she had her peaceful, hopeful voiceover was her coming out party. Even though people probably didn’t get to know each other in the so what do you like to do kind of ways, by the end of the winter on the road, all of these people knew each other’s habits, body language, instincts, inside and out. Beth is running all on instinct in the opening scene of Inmates, and I’m sure she picked up a lot from Daryl (and Rick, and T-Dog) that winter, and they were just falling back into old routines, muscle memory. Daryl shut down after the prison, because nobody has ever beat up Daryl Dixon harder than Daryl Dixon. In Inmates, the writers were definitely going out of their way to show a complete lack of hope and faith in Daryl and the bursting humanity of Beth.
Oh my gosh, STILL. I’ve been dying to get to this one!
Okay, so on this last rewatch, I realized that the night in the trunk was the night after the prison fell. Initially, I thought more like a week or so had gone by, but it must have been the next day. (From Beth’s all I wanted to do was lay down and cry today, it just seems like such an immediate reaction.)
Truth be told, I don’t gleam much of a connection from the non-verbal communication. I think that’s all instinct and muscle memory. Beth looking for a drink has nothing to do with being drunk or partying or anything like that- she’s very clearly trying to provoke Daryl. Provoke him into what...I honestly don’t think she knows.
Provoke him into *anything*. I think she’s honestly a little hesitant about actually taking that drink, because she futzes around with bloody, broken cups, and she’s probably always had a bad taste in her mouth (no pun intended) for what she knew her dad went through (I imagine that Patricia was like a close aunt and might have told her more of her family history than her father or sister ever did). But by the time she gets to the shack with Daryl, and it’s right in front of her, curiosity has gotten enough the better of her, and they’d taken the whole thing that far, so why not? I really think that the episode focused on Beth and Daryl was their introduction as the lead, power couple of the show.
That’s it. I mean, I know I’m biased, but even *objectively*, there has never been another story like this on the show. We saw the destruction of Rick and Lori’s marriage, the complete implosion of Lori and Shane, Andrea and Shane were just sex, and even Maggie and Glenn just met and were in love, and that has been their whole storyline. Karen and Tyreese, Bob and Sasha, they were literally, like, two episodes each, with no build up.
Beth and Daryl have been a Love Story. Intentionally, and coming for a long time. So there.
So, from what I saw, Daryl was already in love with Beth by season 3. By season 4, in 30 Days Without An Accident, he already *knew* he was in love with her. In that tiny moment in Inmates, when Beth is picking berries, he has another *a-ha!* moment when he realizes that this girl that he loves is now, literally, his entire world, and that terrifies him. Daryl left the prison for the sole purpose of keeping Beth safe. If he hadn’t seen her, and thought she was on the bus, he would have fought the Governor’s men to the very last and taken down as many walkers as he could. Gone down with the ship.
But Beth is Daryl’s blinders- everything else goes out the window when it comes to her, and has for a very long time by the time we get to Still. When she told him she didn’t cry any more, and hugged him, it was this tiny moment of pleasure, unexpected, that he probably held on to for a very long time. And when he saw her crying over her pathetic drink of peach schnapps, he had to do something for her (because she is his ENTIRE world).
I think Beth started the I Never game very innocently at first. I think she thought it would just be a silly way to pass the time, and it’s what she’d seen other people doing while drinking. And she was probably also curious about his past, but didn’t think it was going to turn into what it did. And Daryl’s reaction to is one of my favorite moments from Norman in the whole series.
It’s a thousand things at once. He’s angry, he’s hurt, he’s ashamed. I don’t think he’s being *too* aggressive with Beth, I mean, I would never fear for her safety with him or anything. But I could see all these shades of Michael Rooker in his posturing, and probably a slight of Will Dixon.
And Beth absolutely holds her own against Daryl- she’s his perfect match, of course. And he never saw anyone stand up to his father, I’m sure, and it’s something enormous that she stands up to him when he is at his ugliest (*trying* to be his ugliest, trying to horrify her). And she never backs down. They’re standing there, her holding him up from behind (and it’s my headcanon that they kissed after this- I might write this), in broad daylight, and when we see them again, it’s night time and are totally relaxed.
So, what else could have happened in all that time? Their scene on the porch is, in my opinion, in the top two of the most important scenes in the whole show. You got to stay who you are. Stay a person.
(So stop killing the symbols of humanity, Kirkman.)
This episode switches point’s-of-view a couple of times (most of the beginning is in Beth’s POV), but this scene in the moonlight is definitely Daryl’s POV. And that’s how he sees Beth, luminous and gorgeous, and he’s darkness, shadow. (And she has definitely done SOMETHING to soothe him since his breakdown in her arms- I’m telling you, SOMETHING happened.)
When Beth says we should burn it down with that beatific, slightly mischievous smile, Daryl basically just turns into a pile of mush. It’s his third *a-ha!* moment. The girl he loves is his entire world, it’s terrifying, and it is the most precious thing he’s ever been able to call his, ever. He STILL would never consider *doing anything about it*, but this girl is *his*, and he is *hers*, in whatever way she will have him, in whatever way she ever needs him.
Daryl has had many allusions to Baptism By Fire, and while Carol talked about being ‘consumed’, Daryl seems to be cleansed by fire. It ripped his childhood away, and then with Beth, he burned away the pain with it. I mean, this is a stretch, but if you look at their positioning in the last shot of the episode, and think about what they’re doing, and what they’re saying and not saying...it’s kind of like a wedding? I know, I know, I said it was a stretch, but there are definitely vows being made, and just *watch* again.
Like, this whole episode is just my favorite. It’s an excellent, beautifully-written, gorgeously acted one act play, and it unfolds Beth and Daryl’s love story in an almost ethereal way, but it also just says so much, about humanity, about love and possibility and faith and hope.
You know, bless Lawrence Gilliard and Sonequa Martin-Greene, they were really sweet and did what they could with the fifteen seconds of actual story that they got as a romantic couple. And I know that Bob is a comic book character (don’t know about Sasha, or Tyreese), so maybe he ‘had’ to be included, but as far as their romance goes, I’m kind of thinking what’s the point. It was given such little story, such little attention, and Bob’s death, coupled with his own journey and really how he brought Sasha and Maggie together would have been poignant enough. (With Karen and Tyreese, someone needed to be deeply hurt by her death, but they couldn’t kill one of the regulars at that point.)
I’m unsure of how much time there is in between Still and Alone. I’m thinking *at least* two months, and probably no more than four. (I’d be more inclined towards four, except that Judith is the baby that never ages.) I do think it’s pretty significant that Daryl is teaching Beth how to hunt, but I think he taught Rick a thing or two, or at least they hunted together, and I’m sure Rick picked some up just by watching, even if he wasn’t expressly being taught. But really, whether it’s two months or four months, or however long, that is a LONG time to be living and dying by one person, as the last two people on earth, so by the time Alone rolled around, I feel like they were 99% opened up to each other.
The moment at the grave wasn’t expressly romantic, but it shows so much about how far they have come with their connection, their level of comfort. The thing that has always jumped straight out at me is that when Beth takes Daryl’s hand, he’s alread spreading his fingers, fitting himself right against her and when the camera pans back up to their faces, he has no reaction. This is a habit, and they’ve done this many times before, for whatever reason. They have a physical relationship (I could even be persuaded to believe that they might even have a sexual relationship at this point).
Gimple gave the story that there was a kindly undertaker keeping his home open, and burying walkers as people, with dignity, and he got caught on a run, but it just seems so tidy. Even so, I’m thinking that’s probably it, just because there’s so much that needs to be covered, and they can’t go back to *everything*. Daryl still doesn’t know how to use his words, so he shows her how he feels by taking care of her. He still can’t say it (we’re getting there.)
As far as how long he stood there listening to her play, who knows. Daryl can stand stock still and silent for a long time. It might have been fifteen seconds, it might have been fifteen songs. Obviously watching her, unobserved is a small pleasure for him that he allows himself whenever he can (he can always watch her, but with only the two of them, she probably usually knows where he is and what he’s doing).
And Daryl lying in the coffin is probably the biggest *a-ha!* moment of his life. Because you see him fight this losing battle of panic as he watches her, looks up at the ceiling and back to her. He is going to make her his life, he has decided to court her. And that is the significance of their ‘last supper’ (which appears to start out as breakfast).
So he sets the table, and even shares his coveted pig’s feet with her (seriously, that move just makes me *swoon*). And he’s edging around it all day, so it seems, that he is going to try to make life with her, in this beautiful, clean house that has so far provided everything that they’ve been needing. And their conversation!
What changed your mind?
And for once in his life, Daryl Dixon actually makes an attempt to *flirt*, he gives that goofy smile, that obviously feels unnatural on his face.
You know.
She has to know, right? She has to be right there with him. She *has* to know, at this point, right?
What?
And then it’s panic again- has he messed up? Has he read all the signs wrong? He retreats back into shadow. Words, as always, fail him, and he gives as little as possible.
Mm-mmm…
But she is soft, flickering candlelight, too beautiful to look at, and she still smiles. (She still sings.)
Don’t ‘mm-mmm’. What changed your mind?
And then that calm comes over him- it seriously might be the most significant moment of his life. He cannot hide any more, he is 100% open, and he is offering himself to her.
Oh.
And even though it’s kind of out of character for Daryl Dixon to *ever* be caught off guard, the moment of his life could probably do that to him. I honestly have no idea if Beth was *seriously* Surrounded by walkers. (And once again, it’s just too neat and tidy that Gorman and whoever were just driving down the road, alongside this huge pack of walkers.)
She BETTER expand on that oh. She better get a chance to. And I’m going to leave that there.
I think Daryl was put with Joe’s group for a few reasons, narratively. Mostly to bring all the storylines together, but yeah, part of it was to show Daryl how far he’d come. At one point, he might not have felt at home with these men, but probably where he felt he belonged. Joe, I don’t know, man, he’s got this weird hard-on for Daryl, just kind of fixates on him right away.
I kind of imagine that Joe, at first, shows some of the positive traits that Will Dixon had (if you can call it that). Daryl always wanted to please his father, and it probably means something to him at first that Joe takes a liking to him. Len’s just giving Daryl a hard time, picking on the new guy, but it says something HUGE that even when someone who has never laid eyes on her indirectly insults Beth (calls her a ‘bitch’, a ‘piece of tail’, insinuates all kinds of nasty things, calling her a ‘little one’), Daryl is ready to do murder. Daryl has learned that there’s other sides of death and the ugliness in the world- he even tries to give Len a little bit of dignity.
He pulls off though, I’m not sure if it’s because Len had already done wrong to him, and Daryl didn’t think he deserved to be treated like a human (though I don’t think that’s the case), or if it’s because he’s trying to tamp down what he felt when he was with Beth. (Already starting to lose hope.)
So much has been made of the small part Beth plays in A, and the sherriff’s hat that it is just Thing #8717817892823479 on the Team We Right Manifesto.
I think that Daryl was literally laying down his life for Rick, Carl and Michonne, with no hesitation. I think Daryl knew they were bad but not rape kids (or rape in general), murder in cold blood kind of bad. And maybe he was turning a bit of a blind eye when he thought that he had no hope of ever seeing his family ever again. I love that scene between Daryl and Rick.
And while Daryl was revisiting his daddy issues with Joe, Rick gave him the measure of peace he’d been searching for his whole life, he calls him his brother, and it’s this note of love and respect from man that Daryl admires so much, probably the best father he’s ever seen (not that Rick is flawless but given what Daryl has for comparison, he’s excellent. And he does love his kids.) I always thought that Daryl’s word choice there was odd, and obviously.
Rick has a lot going on in that moment, but if I were him, it sounds like she’s turned. And that’s a nice little Brick/Brickyl moment there. But Rick has a ton of other things to worry about in this moment, so...
Season 4 definitely goes down as my favorite season, and the way 5a has seemed to just go out with a COMPLETELY NONSENSICAL whimper...we’ll just have to see.
Personally, I don’t think that Maggie really believed Beth was alive. First of all, they were being held captive in a box when he told her how she was taken, and that he’d tried to follow her. But whisked off in a speeding car with blacked out windows doesn’t sound too promising, and they had other things to focus on at that point.
Like I’ve said before, Daryl has been, at least once a season, in some situation where I *knew* he wasn’t going to die (Norman Reedus has nothing to worry about, I’m sure), but I was like, How the HELL is he getting out of this one? But Daryl has this calm that comes over him, it’s not like a panic, it’s like, HOW am I going to get out of this one? Focus, Dixon. Rick did this too. Glenn gritted his teeth and tried to brace himself for the blow. Bob tried to bargain. It was an interesting mix. And I don’t think it’s that Glenn has less of a will to live than the others, but I think his mind doesn’t go to the desperate place of doing *anything* to survive. Rick is getting out of there, he is getting back to his son, and there is never any doubt in his mind. Bob’s tactic is really the most interesting, kind of a cross between Glenn and Rick. He is not accepting this, but he still wants to believe that men will be reasonable.
Daryl though...I said this before also, I think that he has always expected to meet a violent, gruesome end, it was just a matter of when. He keeps fighting out of them, but I don’t think he quite knows what he’s fighting towards (at this point, with such a very faint glimmer of hope).
No surprises here, Daryl’s reunion with Carol and seeing Rick reunite with Judith and Tyreese with Sasha, Daryl’s reactions felt ALL about Beth.
And when he takes off like a bat out of hell after the speeding car with Carol, it just proves how close she has been to the forefront of his mind, of his thoughts, and, almost unbelievably, he has held onto the hope she showed him. She had *that much* of a profound effect on him.
I have a *lot* of questions about Grady, *still*. It just seems so...that’s it? I don’t think that Gorman was the only rapist cop. I don’t think that only the old men got beaten. Just none of it adds up (I’ll get back to that in a second.)
Consumed felt, in every way, like Carol’s ‘coda’ (no pun intended). She seemed like she was pulling it together to do one last thing for good, but was ready to lay down her weary burden. I still have too many questions, because Consumed was the point that the series felt like it was veering from what it was, what it had been to...something a little bit more non-linear, dreamlike, less real.
We will have to see. (And soon.)
Not to be a big cheesebucket, but all of the fire symbolism reminds me of Billy Joel’s “We Didn’t Start The Fire”, the part in the end where it goes when we are gone, will it still burn on and on… Carol talks about different parts of her, different lives burning away, like it was something out of her control. Maybe it was. And Daryl insists that she try (asks her to? demands her to? tries to make himself believe she is?) In his mind, it is a *choice*.
And Crossed and Coda are *really* the point that the series feels like it’s wandered into a dream world. I don’t know. We’ll have to see how this shakes out.
The way I have reasoned Beth attacking Dawn is that she was aiming for her throat (her carotid artery). And I am 100%, fully TEAM DELUSIONAL.
I'M SO SCARED.
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