Thoughts on Children of Earth, post re-watch

[lefaym]

Thanks to lionessvalenti for reading this through for me.

Also, many of the thoughts here came out of discussions with everyone who attended the re-watch. I don't usually remember the specific details of who said what, but I wouldn't have been able to write this without those discussions. Having said that, however, the opinions I express here are my own, and

Comments

[remuslives23]

The "die like a dog" line was awful though -- I could actually see Ianto engaging in that sort of gallows humour, but not Jack

I was stunned when I rewatched COE after watching the first two seasons and learning more about Jack, and there is just no force on Earth that could convince me that immortal Jack would EVER say that. Mortal Jack - yes, but the man who will lose everyone he ever loves - no fucking way!

fore-anviling This is my new favourite way to described the heavy handed attempts at foreshadowing in COE!

then Ianto asks all these questions that imply that it's only just occured to him that Jack is immortal and going to outlive him, which makes him look really stupidI wince everytime I watch that. Even when I first watched and all I knew was Jack was immortal and Ianto was his lover, I was stunned when Ianto said that shit. Now, knowing much more about the time line of their relationship, I'm stunned by the idiocy of the TW writers, and embarrassed for Gareth and John that they were given such a pointless scene to work

[remuslives23]

Most of the "liked/loved" bits for me were part of the political storyline.

I think this sums up what I think about COE. It could have been a fantastic mini series - gripping, terrifying, fantastic acting... but then they tried to make it Torchwood.

The inclusion of the TW universe made what could have been a brilliant political drama into something that felt clumsy and awkward more often than not. Any scene the TW team was not in was fantastic! The supporting cast was brilliant! The storylines that involved the TW characters (except for Andy) were badly written and felt like the writers were trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole.

I don't know what I'm more annoyed about: that they made such a huge misstep for TW with this series and have possibly ruined it for me, or that they ruined what was actually a bloody good mini series with the awkward inclusion of TW.

the children themselves didn't fight back -- sure, some of them cried, but none of them really struggled. I laugh everytime I think of my daughter's reaction

[lefaym]

Well, as I said above, I don't think the political drama was necessarily incompatible with Torchwood, and I do think it worked in well with what we'd seen previously of Whoniverse UK politics. The problem is that so much of the Torchwood stuff was badly written that it FELT tacked on, even though it could have been incorporated really well.

ETA: Your nine year old is awesome! :D

[remuslives23]

No, you're right. It could have been incorporated beautifully, but it wasn't. It felt very much as though the TW characters were a last minute addition into an already written script (and I think that's not too far from reality) and no one bothered to try and make them fit. I do think that the feeling of the entire series wasn't in line with the first two seasons and that made it jarring before you take into account anything else. COE felt, to me, a bit like a little girl dressing up in her mummy's clothes and pretending to be a grown up.

[nevercheshire]

I enjoyed reading your write up very much! I have to agree, I don't see Jack as uncaring but as the pair written for new viewers. Like remusilver I was a COE first timer and was still taken aback by that conversation, because it seemed apparent in COE that Ianto knew about Jack for sometime, so it came across as very very clunky foreshadowing.

Do you think the length of time between seasons contributes to this sort of need to recap the relationship?

I'm glad you had friends to watch COE with so you can at least have your old Jack and Ianto back! I don't think I'll ever be able to watch it again for reasons you cite, its just too draining, with none of the hope or even a bit of humor that old series had.

(don't get me started on the Vincent episode, I'm so head of over heals I don't know where to begin! Just when I was giving up on season 5!)

[lefaym]

Do you think the length of time between seasons contributes to this sort of need to recap the relationship?

Honestly, I think that it's more a matter of RTD just not having a good feel for the J/I relationship. I don't think he saw the need to put much effort into writing it.

[spiderine]

This is a really good, well-reasoned and comprehensive critique of something that has been troubling and problematic to many of us for a year. Thanks for watching it again and sharing your insights with us.

I still don't think I'm ever going to rewatch it, though. I'm happy here in my bubble of denial. :)

[lefaym]

Thank you. I'm glad it seemed comprehensive -- there was a lot more I could have covered, but this was already way too long, and writing about it is quite draining.

Funnily enough, I think re-watching it will help me escape into a denial-bubble when I need to. Before, I just assimilated it, but now that I've been able to have a more objective look at how BAD some of the writing was (esp. re: J/I), it's easier for me to dismiss it.

[used_songs]

I really enjoyed your write up and seeing COE through your eyes.

[lefaym]

Thank you. :) *hugs*

[lawsontl]

So much this. And comments from TW newbies make it even better. Thanks for sharing!

[lefaym]

Yeah, I always find the perspectives of people who saw CoE as their first Torchwood, and also people who weren't in fandom before CoE, really really interesting.

Thanks. :)