Oh, Leda. So lovely. Sure I can't convince you to take over from Jacob? Seriously - did you read his recap of this ep? Zero snark, and your review is ten times better.
It seems to me that they go out in that field without any intent to sleep together
...the pressure is off both of them in terms of love, because they both have someone else
See, this is the only explanation I've been able to buy thus far. I just didn't get the sense that Lee was going into that field with an ultimatum in his head. It feels right to me, in that otherwise I don't know why Kara would give in this time, after having pushed Lee away so hard and so many times before.
Premeditation on either part would be both totally out of character and completely reprehensible. Given that the both have 'other halves', the safety that knowledge gives them lets them relax and just be friends. But of course, their friendship is a big part of their romance so it... slips. But not intentionally
( ... )
I'm curious as to how people see Lee interpreting that. Does he think that her actions the night before were dishonest, and that she married Sam because he is the future she wants? Or does he just see Kara's old patterns reasserting, this time more cruelly and irrevocably than most? Or is it just a rejection, one she can't take back, of what they'd done and said the night before.
Door number two, I think. Obviously, it's a rejection, but if anyone knows Kara - really knows her - that's Lee, and I saw much of that in their angst-ridden staring afterwards. He's saying, "I know what you did; I've never understood it and I don't think I ever will; I'm done." She reads it as, "I know what you did, I know what you are, and it disgusts me." The problem is that she doesn't know how to communicate back outside of running away or physically lashing out.
I think I probably agree with you. I wonder, also, if there's an element of self disgust in it at all for him, whether he's asking himself what he did wrong? I am not sure. Lee's cruelty is all after the fact, and aimed at Kara; Kara's cruelty is a direct response to an emotion she can't control. Neither of them are particularly admirable in it, but I don't see Kara's actions as completely irredeemable. Maybe it's my bias, but Lee, with his logical, calculating brain, seems to have acted in a way that's a lot less sympathetic in his immediate return to Dee.
*waves hands in the air, surrenders* It's a good episode for making me think. Thanks for commenting.
You're right in that, of course. But I think what bothers me is that in his hurt reaction, he makes a decision which involves his own feelings and lashing out at Kara, but doesn't really consider Dee - not that it would be necessary, under any other circumstances, given that they're already involved. But I don't think, in hindsight, he approves his own choice there. I think that's borne out in the way he reacts to her dig about Dee knowing what she was getting, at the fight. His calculation - probably a word with the wrong connotations, but it goes past just 'reaction' in my opinion - is a selfish one. That doesn't mean his choice is any worse than Kara's... I'm not trying to really lay blame, because the situations are actually pretty damned similar.
He is deeply hurt, but his is a reaction to her reaction. Gah, I can't make sense of my emotional response here: my 'feeling' is that her choice is based on an uncontrollable instinct, that she's too afraid to do anything else. I don't 'feel' the same lack of options in Lee. Sure, turn
( ... )
Lovely review, as always. I'm close to being meta'd out (even though I'm rewatching the ep now for the Nth time), but I wanted to mention one thing:
They can't really lift their arms, and Lee pulls her into a clinch.
I think I'm the only one who noticed that she's the one who initiates the hug (though I suppose it's up to interpretation.) Go to 41:26 in the .avi. To that point, the clinch is more of a boxing thing, but she's the one who wraps her arms around his back and shifts it from a stance to an actual embrace. Maybe I'm just overanalyzing it, though, but I thought that first step was so wonderful, especially for the words that come after. :)
Yep - you're right that she makes it a hug, but 'clinch' in boxing terms is to tie up the other's arms, which is what he does, and what I was referring to.
Having read it over a few times now, I think I need to edit myself. Whole paragraphs worth; it's too long. *shrugs* I did leave out whole reams of Kara/Lee discussion though, because you and others have already covered it much more thoroughly than I could.
But I'm not meta'd out. Things have grabbed my interest, like Kara's evident suprise - and slightly snarky response - to Sam's boots, which make me wonder if he went there on purpose to seduce her... using sex as an 'in' with Kara, one he knows works... although we haven't seen them together post split yet in any other fashion. And whether Adama includes listening to Laura - and getting 'close' to her in his self-reproaches. And if Kat put HotDog up to challenging Kara, rather than do it herself. And... and...
It just doesn't sit right that she'd invite him there for sex, you know? She's been avoiding intimacy with him, and their marriage is on tenterhooks. I suppose she might have the option of other men, if she doesn't consider herself currently 'married', per se, but given that she's not ready for a closer relationship with him, sleeping with him or arranging to sleep with him on anything but the spur of the moment would be completely out of character
( ... )
Total sucker for BSG and pilots that I am, I am way beyond 4 or 5. LOL But I enjoyed it THAT much.
I meta'd in my LJ, I meta'd all over the place. No matter that I feel I have almost no further new words left to comment with, I still enjoyed your entire post immensely and I am really pleased you took the time to type it all up. I wish we could go for coffee, so we could just talk ourselves hoarse about this eppy. Your viewpoint, is pretty much my viewpoint; you said it better, and elaborated beautifully.
One thing I will add, which occured to me after the 3rd viewing, happened right at the beginning of the post-coital bliss. When Kara asks where the complication will go, Lee firmly says, "We accept it. Tomorrow, I tell Dee..."The "We accept it." is huge to me, almost as much as Kara's "I missed you". IMO Lee is telling her, 'We've danced around this. We've (you've) fought against this. It's time for us to come to terms with this is the way we feel and we get to be happy together.'
( ... )
oh, yes. Someone to sit on the couch with and laugh and cry over this stupidly addictive TV show. None of my close friends watches, not even the lad, though lately he's expressed interest in my fic. It would be so nice to be able to hash this all out verbally.
You're exactly right about the 'accept' line. If Lee hasn't been fighting it for ages, why the frak hasn't he done something sooner? Why wait until they're both with viable (relatively speaking) alternatives? So his 'acceptance' is as much an admission of his own willingless - lets do it and damn the consequences - as a 'where do we go from here' solution. Unfortunately, Kara's wrapped up in a lifetime of consequences and they scare her out of her wits. Lee, as usual: right feelings, wrong methods. Sigh!
Ooh. That's a nice prompt. I'll think about it. *glares at Contraventions and E&A WIPs* the alternatives are being a bitch, anyway.
Does 'proud to serve with you, Lieutenant' = "Goodbye"?
I thought that scene between Lee and Dualla felt really forced, strained in an unnatural way. I actually thought it was crappy acting at first, but now I see that it was LEE acting and not Jamie.
Personally I think that both actors, while competent, really didn't have enough time together to sell us on any kind of connection between the two of them, so the 'emotional' statements just don't come over as well, comparatively. Bamber's a good actor with too few challenges and too many shining co-stars; wishy-washy emotional situations are never easy to sell, and I think it shows here, paired with an actress who isn't given anything to play up and a piece of dialogue that doesn't have enough backstory support.
That said, it did seem a little... trite, to me. I think it's because Lee is as much trying to convince himself as he is praising Dee. Given the rest of his emotional state, and that he finds himself at that moment ostensibly making a 'wrong' choice - leaving Galactica and his father alone to fight - he needs to point out to himself the choices already made that he wants to think are 'right
( ... )
Comments 21
It seems to me that they go out in that field without any intent to sleep together
...the pressure is off both of them in terms of love, because they both have someone else
See, this is the only explanation I've been able to buy thus far. I just didn't get the sense that Lee was going into that field with an ultimatum in his head. It feels right to me, in that otherwise I don't know why Kara would give in this time, after having pushed Lee away so hard and so many times before.
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Door number two, I think. Obviously, it's a rejection, but if anyone knows Kara - really knows her - that's Lee, and I saw much of that in their angst-ridden staring afterwards. He's saying, "I know what you did; I've never understood it and I don't think I ever will; I'm done." She reads it as, "I know what you did, I know what you are, and it disgusts me." The problem is that she doesn't know how to communicate back outside of running away or physically lashing out.
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*waves hands in the air, surrenders* It's a good episode for making me think. Thanks for commenting.
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He is deeply hurt, but his is a reaction to her reaction. Gah, I can't make sense of my emotional response here: my 'feeling' is that her choice is based on an uncontrollable instinct, that she's too afraid to do anything else. I don't 'feel' the same lack of options in Lee. Sure, turn ( ... )
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They can't really lift their arms, and Lee pulls her into a clinch.
I think I'm the only one who noticed that she's the one who initiates the hug (though I suppose it's up to interpretation.) Go to 41:26 in the .avi. To that point, the clinch is more of a boxing thing, but she's the one who wraps her arms around his back and shifts it from a stance to an actual embrace. Maybe I'm just overanalyzing it, though, but I thought that first step was so wonderful, especially for the words that come after. :)
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Having read it over a few times now, I think I need to edit myself. Whole paragraphs worth; it's too long. *shrugs* I did leave out whole reams of Kara/Lee discussion though, because you and others have already covered it much more thoroughly than I could.
But I'm not meta'd out. Things have grabbed my interest, like Kara's evident suprise - and slightly snarky response - to Sam's boots, which make me wonder if he went there on purpose to seduce her... using sex as an 'in' with Kara, one he knows works... although we haven't seen them together post split yet in any other fashion. And whether Adama includes listening to Laura - and getting 'close' to her in his self-reproaches. And if Kat put HotDog up to challenging Kara, rather than do it herself. And... and...
*sighs* It's a great episode.
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Total sucker for BSG and pilots that I am, I am way beyond 4 or 5. LOL But I enjoyed it THAT much.
I meta'd in my LJ, I meta'd all over the place. No matter that I feel I have almost no further new words left to comment with, I still enjoyed your entire post immensely and I am really pleased you took the time to type it all up. I wish we could go for coffee, so we could just talk ourselves hoarse about this eppy. Your viewpoint, is pretty much my viewpoint; you said it better, and elaborated beautifully.
One thing I will add, which occured to me after the 3rd viewing, happened right at the beginning of the post-coital bliss. When Kara asks where the complication will go, Lee firmly says, "We accept it. Tomorrow, I tell Dee..."The "We accept it." is huge to me, almost as much as Kara's "I missed you". IMO Lee is telling her, 'We've danced around this. We've (you've) fought against this. It's time for us to come to terms with this is the way we feel and we get to be happy together.' ( ... )
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You're exactly right about the 'accept' line. If Lee hasn't been fighting it for ages, why the frak hasn't he done something sooner? Why wait until they're both with viable (relatively speaking) alternatives? So his 'acceptance' is as much an admission of his own willingless - lets do it and damn the consequences - as a 'where do we go from here' solution. Unfortunately, Kara's wrapped up in a lifetime of consequences and they scare her out of her wits. Lee, as usual: right feelings, wrong methods. Sigh!
Ooh. That's a nice prompt. I'll think about it. *glares at Contraventions and E&A WIPs* the alternatives are being a bitch, anyway.
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I thought that scene between Lee and Dualla felt really forced, strained in an unnatural way. I actually thought it was crappy acting at first, but now I see that it was LEE acting and not Jamie.
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That said, it did seem a little... trite, to me. I think it's because Lee is as much trying to convince himself as he is praising Dee. Given the rest of his emotional state, and that he finds himself at that moment ostensibly making a 'wrong' choice - leaving Galactica and his father alone to fight - he needs to point out to himself the choices already made that he wants to think are 'right ( ... )
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