Another incident. This time I wasn't quite sure I believed my ears at first either.

[learnsslowly]

Pretty much all of this had better be under the cut. The course of action recommended to the horrified younger learnsslowly, isn't I suspect illegal, but would be morally dubious and might be upsetting to read about.

Comments

[jenn_calaelen]

Wow! That is just incredibly nasty and stupid. I am shocked by the idea that that is good plan on any level - it just seems a way to cause stress and trouble all around. I am so sorry you have to deal with all this.

[learnsslowly]

Well, in that case, I was just hearing about it rather than having to pick up the consequences. I would be really surprised if the little boy didn't have some sort of problems - assuming she had taken the advice she was giving me. Whether this would have taught him that it was OK to lie and deceive to use other people for his own ends and the people around him will be the ones suffering or whether he feels just another item obtained to satisfy his mother's "I want" mentality, or whether she has lied to him about it, I don't know.
It's just about possible that she was upfront with his DNA father about her motives, of course, I which case I wish she'd given some indication of it, so i could stop worrying. It wasn't in the advice to me however!

again: her problem

[sprog_63]

Oh, that sounds so familiar .... I had at least three (separate) similar conversations with people who I knew well, and I thought knew me well. As they were not waving sharp scissors at the time, and were ostensibly friends, we did go a little further in the conversation: with me saying pretty much what you say about the ethical, practical, aesthetic, and long term disadvantages of such an action and the response being along the lines of, "Men abuse and manipulate women all the time, where's the problem?" Also, "Most men would be flattered".

My friends are generally fair minded, thoughtful, responsible people (on reflection I realise: one was a GP, one a social worker, and one a psychiatric nurse!) I presume they thought they were supporting me with good ideas (like I hadn't realised that would be possible?) but it made me feel very isolated. And I wondered if I was being stupid not to take this route, if all of them thought it was a sensible solution; and I was anxious lest I'd lose their support for not taking their "good advice

Re: again: her problem

[learnsslowly]

I thought my experience was worrying, but yours certainly presents you with more moral dilemmas and is much worse

Re: again: her problem

[sprog_63]

That whole period was so painful that this just fell into the mix. I don't read you as being negative or unsupportive, and this is nearly 20 years ago now and the pain is remembered rather than felt

[heliopausa]

I hope she has another trade to fall back on, because I imagine most of her customers would be sidling uncomfortably out the door, never to return, after just one session.
Because it's probably not only the child-free she targets; I expect she hands out advice correcting other people's child-rearing, too, or how they relate to their parents, or gives free weight-loss advice (unasked-for). I certainly wouldn't have gone back - and I think you were wise to leave her unchallenged, because of the scissors.

Co-incidentally I've seen a little while ago, over on Dreamwidth, reference to a book called The Science of Herself, by Karen J.Fowler, which amongst other things included the lines (my bolding!):
"Nothing, absolutely nothing, appears to me more contested in our political and social and private lives than motherhood. Any woman who has ever had children can tell you it is no picnic of affirmation. Any woman who has not had children can tell you that that, too, is a controversial place to be. Neither is much admired."

[learnsslowly]

And childless men don't necessarily have an easy time either, although I get the impression that the pressures are different, and perhaps not quite so severe.

Quote

[sprog_63]

Thank you for the quote.

I enjoyed the image your words brought to my mind of her customers sidling out the door never to return - and the idea that she would feel free to "advise" anyone whether they wanted it or not on a wide range of subjects rings horribly true!