That Salvatore Woman & some brief thoughts on motherhood narratives in TVD

[ladygawain]

Okay, so this is something I’ve been wondering about for a while. Who is Madam Salvatore? Missus Salvatore? Or Mrs. Salvatore? Mama Salvatore? Maman Salvatore? What is her name? Her maiden name? Her anything?

Comments

[ladygawain]

I also like to think that Damon had his mother in a way that Stefan couldn't, not quite like how it is with Giuseppe but close to that, each parent had their favorite of sorts. But I'm also oddly okay with the idea of Mama Salvatore being distant to both her children? Perhaps in different ways, but just having parts of her be completely inaccessible to both of them for reasons more than that they're children and she's an adult; and have that be something Giuseppe experiences with her as well on some level. I'm not making any sense. But I JUST WANT TO KNOW THIS WOMAN. Of course, given me, I would be utterly fixated by a character who is a woman who is a mystery because I'm predictable. Sigh.

Kelly Donovan is one of the reasons why that family is so dear to me, my own mother isn't that similar to her but there's a similar sense of inferiority/disappointment/love/resentment or something that I just kind of get when it comes to those kids?

Family is a very solitary thing on the show, even with the Council that functions very much as a

[ladygawain]

Hmmmm, this is interesting. The physicality of these characters is interesting although I have no useful thoughts to add.

I hope they bring her in. Like, I'm dying for a flashback that takes us to these two as children but I doubt it'd be a high priority for a long while.

I want to think they'll give us a closer glimpse into this Council this season because they're so toothless and useless (and ridiculous with all their lavish events to cover up meetings that don't accomplish anything) that it's hard for me to really understand how they function. But fully agree, "maintenance and tradition", sigh.

Everyone should run, lbr, lol.

[pocochina]

I find myself nodding along with everything you say, as seems to be par for the course. I love so much that mothers MATTER on this show.

All of the “bad” mothers and “bad” women: come unto me.

SO MUCH YES. ALWAYS ALWAYS. I think best of all I love characters who are "bad" women to the effect of being "good" mothers. ISOBEL, MY WOMAN. There is something so, so interesting going on with Isobel and Katherine and birth mother trauma.

Everything about the Bennett matrilineal legacy and the firm idea of knowledge and therefore power passed down through generations of women in that particular narrative

I. JUST. YES.

BUT MAMA SALVATORE. I HAVE A LOT OF FEELINGS.

There’s also the idea that she was much “nicer” to Damon, that she loved him in all the ways Giuseppe did not or refused to. And I’m not sure we have any canonical explanations as to why Giuseppe was so emotionally (and possibly physically) abusive towards Damon and clearly favored Stefan.JESUS, yes, my poor boo. Damon seems to have been mama's boy and carried that way over

[ladygawain]

*hearts* And YES and that the show does it relatively well. Like sometimes motherhood narratives can be the worst but on this show, I'm consistently fascinated and most often delighted by the choices they make when it comes to that. And just kind of want more than they have room to give with all the stories they're telling.

ISOBEL, MY WOMAN. There is something so, so interesting going on with Isobel and Katherine and birth mother trauma.
YES. Ugh, now I want you to talk about it some more because these two. These two

JESUS, yes, my poor boo. Damon seems to have been mama's boy and carried that way over into his unlife, with the way he latches onto Katherine and Liz and Carol. (Compared with how even in his relatively stable S3 state, he needs half a reason to decide he will CUT Caroline's father after her whole debacle with him.) Mother figures are far and away his favorite people to deal with.I love this boy so much! And I also got the sense that he was a bit of a mama's boy. Thank god that you said this about his latching onto

[pocochina]

My Kat and Isobel thoughts are half-baked if that, but yes, my feeeeeeeeeling is that there's this simultaneous hardness and stuntedness to them; Isobel in particular seems to think she *gave up* on Elena and tries to turn herself into a person who she thinks would do that, a person who's not a person. They are both so perfect.

I would actually be surprised if we got more 1864 flashbacks any time soon - they were great to establish the brothers' relationship to each other and Katherine, but I'm not sure it wouldn't lose some power, if got more detail about Guiseppe. Particularly since the story with Klaus and Mikael was so massive, I'm not sure how good a choice it would be to give a lead character something similar that probably wouldn't live up to it.

But Mama S, yes please. Probably when Stefan comes over all atoney again and Damon goes off the rails to make everyone know he was SO NOT A GOOD GUY!!11!

I almost want Giuseppe to be that terrible for arbitrary reasons more than I'd want him to be all bitter that his seed didn't

[ladygawain]

Ugh, that intrigues me a lot. Because I sometimes struggled with thinking about WHY it was that Isobel made the decision to become a vampire, what kind of internal conflict or feeling made her want that reality? And the few moments when we saw the cracks, and saw the deep, deep regret she felt about it, kind of broke me.

Yeah, I presume we'll get expansion into that time (if ever) in like season five or six when they might conceivably have room to go back and tell that story. But, like you, I wouldn't want it to lose its potency. Idk.

LOL, I am waiting for Damon's upcoming breakdown, my poor bb.

Oh yes on that, like, the implicit rationalization is gross when it comes to Mikael, so gross, they never really dealt with it on the show (well, there really wasn't any time, was there?). So amen to just showing abusive assholes as they are, no apologies, no rationalization.

[ever_neutral]

re: Giuseppe's hatred of Damon. I always imagined this to ~happen after Mama Salvatore's death. Damon probably looks/acts too much like her, or something. So… basically everything you said a few paragraphs down. Plus, Giuseppe did indeed seem to value order and rules and societally acceptable ways of behaving, and wanted to raise his sons in his own image (ergo his favouring of Stefan), and Damon would be the ultimate bad son in that regard… I think there might also be something about Damon failing to live up to the ideal of masculinity, like Poco described (see: desertion), because gender performance and Damon's complicated relationship with it is a thing that exists.

Damon’s always been kind of emotional

LOL. Do we really think so?

Because while he’d idealize her in his mind as that is a thing that Damon does (we should talk about this some day), there might be a sense of resentment that she left him alone to the likes of Giuseppe and also a sense that this kind of pattern in love would be inevitable for him; that they would

[pocochina]

Damon has an abandonment complex about the size of Texas, and it manifests itself in… basically every single one of his behavioural patterns. And that leads directly to his idealisation of people who are not there (see: Katherine), people he cannot have (Elena), because those people can never leave him. And in every other case, he makes sure to be the one walking away, or driving the other person away, because then he's the one in control.

YES. And then Katherine hurt him AS BADLY AS POSSIBLE by destroying those illusions, and by proxy challenges his whole Mommy-is-my-precious-flower thing. (I do not project my Other True Brat Prince onto Damon! it's just that they are the same dude.) And it makes their interactions after that something really amazing to behold, because there's nothing to lose there, in a way that couldn't be true when he developed the whole thing in a family of mortals.

[ever_neutral]

(lol, when you said "True Brat Prince" my mind automatically went to Lestat de Lioncourt. Who also had Mommy-is-my-precious-flower ish. Anyway.)

Yes! I like to imagine that Katherine sort of looks like Mama Salvatore too, because... Freudian issues, why not. And since Katherine has indeed destroyed all of Damon's illusions, and since he is so DISILLUSIONED by her, it means that he can't use the same defence mechanisms on her that he does on everyone else; their relationship is no longer burdened by the odd ideas Damon typically has about love and sex and thus paves the way for future bliss.

[ladygawain]

LOL. Do we really think so?
Bwahaha, I don't know, it's such a mystery tbh. I'm very sure I can't say for certain.

YES. We do need to talk about this. Damon has an abandonment complex about the size of Texas, and it manifests itself in… basically every single one of his behavioural patterns. And that leads directly to his idealisation of people who are not there (see: Katherine), people he cannot have (Elena), because those people can never leave him. And in every other case, he makes sure to be the one walking away, or driving the other person away, because then he's the one in control.
WORD. Nothing to add. Just admiring the way you throw words together.

All the Kelly Donovan love, all of it.

(amen, amen. it's really tiresome because kids honestly deserve better)

[cranmers]

I've thought this before.

Not just Mamma Salvatore. I think there is a 'no mothers in the show, please' rule that the writers have. Siblings - yes - we love those. Fathers - mhmmm, well - they are worth touching on. MOTHERS GET NOTHING. From my perspective, your relationship with your mother is pretty important, so I don't see why they neglect it.

I am oddly delighted by Victorian images of pale, clammy-faced people wasting away in a mound of dirty sheets while coughing out blood into lacy handkerchiefs.

LOLs! It's not your fault. You have come to expect that from watching period dramas extensively. You know it's true :P

Giuseppe just being a hateful, bitter man who was jealous of Damon’s pretty face to the potentiality that Damon was actually illegitimateAHAHA it's obviously the former. But I do agree that Damon's mother may well have favoured him. Damon, unlike Stefan, sulks a lot. He couldn't be that sulky if there hadn't once been someone around who indulged that, someone a lot like an over-compensating mother. Then again, it

[jeynebesterling]

i had no idea madame salvatore is supposedly french but i love the idea of this coquettish french woman who falls in love with guiseppe and runs off with him then after giving birth damon realizes she is in the middle of bumfuck, va. she was the too loud too brash too 'vulgar' at all the founders functions and she embarrasses her husband. behave guisseppe would hiss as he'd drag her out of the room. she'd talk about escaping, 'of course i would take you with me cherie!' then she gets pregnant and she is trapped and she dies. so damon hates stefan because now he is trapped with guiseppe.