Mary Russell series discussion post

[lady_songsmith]

Because Twitter is not the forum for prolonged or nuanced discussions, behold a forum for all of your Mary Russell related thinky thoughts.

In the interests of not influencing the direction of discussion, I'll take mine to comments too rather than putting them here. :)

Comments

[intrikate88]

I'm just going to go ahead and start a thread on how we like our shipping, or not shipping.

Or if we like our shipping like we like our black coffee: with no sugar but plenty of energy and warmth.

(BTW: I've had this icon for years, titled 'waiting for Mary'.)

[lady_songsmith]

I'm anti-ship. It doesn't exactly bother me, in the later books: I find their affection and concern for one another sweet and believable. The references to the pleasures of the marriage bed are pretty much the only thing that jars me. I think I'm one of those asexual-Holmes people deep down, though I never really thought deeply on it while reading Holmes.

Still and all, I'd have preferred they not marry, or marry only to keep everyone and sundry from gossiping about the way they live together, travel together, sleep together, etc; and perhaps for the legalities of next-of-kin given how often they get hurt/vanish.

I don't especially see either of them as the marrying sort, and as I said on Twitter I don't see the relationship as a romance but only as a partnership. And the fact that they do marry -- I think that's what opens the floodgates on the Mary Sue accusations leveled at Russell. On which I have Thoughts, because I disagree vehemently, and on that note I shall open a thread for it.

(Also I need more icons.)

[intrikate88]

This series is literally the one and only thing that does not inspire very strong HOLMES IS ASEXUAL ALWAYS feelings in me. And only by a little. Even in this series I still think he's making just part of an exception because it's Russell.

I can't believe it's been five years? since I first read these books. Or, wait, no, I know when it was-- andi_horton came down for my college graduation and she pointed out Beekeeper's Apprentice at the library and then I checked out the first three, we went on a cruise, and I devoured all three before we were back on land. So that would have been May 2009. Still, a long time for me to remember first reactions

[lady_songsmith]

I can't decide how I feel about Irene and Damien. I sort of like Holmes bumbling around trying to figure out this fatherhood thing, and I could accept Damien as the product of a one-off, what-the-hell-were-we-thinking (or drinking) encounter, but I got the impression it was supposed to be a somewhat longer relationship? Not a whole LOT longer, but still.

And yes, I vastly, vastly prefer the notion of Holmes and Russell coming together solely to legitimize their existing partnership under the social mores of 1921. I can even accept the physical relationship under that heading -- fuckbuddies, essentially. Stress relief. Scratching the itch. Whatever you want to call it.

Except that's not really how it gets written, which drives me up a wall occassionally. Fortunately it's usually like, 1-2 sentences and I can sort of just unfocus my eyes and go 'lalala' in my head.

in progress

[pencildragon11]

Okay yeah I have oh dear homework to do and I was going to take a nap before going to work, but I'm three-quarters of the way through Monstrous Regiment and just staring at the page because WHAT. This is why I was on twitter, because it's a forum more suited to spewing feelings onto the interwebz.

Re: in progress

[lady_songsmith]

Spew there, discuss here after the first OMG passes. :)

Re: in progress

[pencildragon11]

okay.

Mary Sue Russell?

[lady_songsmith]

I'm gonna open a thread on whether or not Mary is a Mary Sue.

I have thoughts on this but I need to finish up work stuff before 5 so I'll be back after work.

Re: Mary Sue Russell?

[pencildragon11]

Of course she is.

Re: Mary Sue Russell?

[intrikate88]

I'm pretty sure rthstewart and I discussed this over dinner the first time we met, hah.

And my answer? Sure she is. And she's still fucking awesome, and anyone who thinks that slapping Mary Sue on her as a descriptor makes her less awesome can come at me.

Re: Mary Sue Russell?

[rthstewart]

I think she's a Sue as that term is commonly defined in some of the secondary material I read on what Sue is, but I've got no problems with it at all and I wouldn't dream of criticizing author or character on that ground. I think it's why I like her. I think Harriet Vane is too, and I love her, too. I adore wish fulfillment stories that are well written. I adore stories with precocious, intelligent rich heiresses with tragic pasts who are fluent in languages and chemistry and are beloved by street urchins and end up being the romantic interest that no one else can be. They can be great, great characters when well written.

[intrikate88]

For those among us who don't mind the visuals, what are your casting choices for the Mary Russell books?

Mine-

Mary Russell - ??? (Romola Garai? Is she even tall enough?)
Sherlock Holmes - Hugh Laurie (mayyyyyybe Peter Capaldi)
Mycroft Holmes - Stephen Fry
John Watson - Brendan Coyle?
Veronica Beaconsfield - Lucy Punch
Mrs Hudson - ??
Patricia Donleavy - Fenella Woolgar? Anna Chancellor?

And other characters?

[lady_songsmith]

Mmm, I'm terrible with actors, but I have some search-by-trait resources, so let's see.

Mary -- Vanessa Kirby?
Not Laurie for Holmes, he's all wrong for my mental image of Holmes. Hum. Have to think on that; I've got a pretty clear one (unusual for me) and I'll need to work out a match. Off the top of my head, Ian McKellan's probably closest in facial structure; he's a little older than my mental for Russell's Holmes, though.

Fry might do well for Mycroft, although even in period pieces he never seems... dapper? enough. Mycroft has always seemed to me like a man who took the closest of care with his appearance, despite the weight issues. Ciaran Hinds? He doesn't quite have the body mass for Mycroft, but he's got the kind of jowly face that could go with some padded costuming.

Coyle I wouldn't have thought of! But yes, he'd make a good older-Watson.

[intrikate88]

Ooh, I didn't know of Vanessa Kirby before, but she looks like a good fit. It's hard to find an actress who is tall and lanky and has long blonde hair and, mostly, could ever be confused for or in disguise as a boy. Most possibilities I've found are far too feminine to really fit Russell very well.

As for Holmes... yes, Ian McKellan is too old but I think I get what you mean by that facial structure. And in Beekeeper's Apprentice, Holmes is just past fifty, although he's had some rough times and smoked a lot so I expect some weathering on his face, but still very lean and spry overall. Though googling "British Actors in their 50s" brings up quite a few too-well-fed specimens. Yeah, I still don't know. And Hugh Laurie is still Holmes for me, it's the eyes.

I don't know where we could fit John Cleese in but I'd like to.