Minami

[koganbot]

warthoginrome writes:

I don't know if you had the chance to run into this news, so I wanted to point it out, because the topic is common to the entire asian pop scene

Comments

[askbask]

I've seen my share of disagreeable things but coming across those pictures and the video for the first time still felt like a punch in the gut.

I've voiced my complaints about the AKB48 empire (like many other things) and earlier on I even stayed away from their products because I didn't like their brand of sex appeal, the voyeur creepy nature of their girl next door stylings (which was ickier/more controversial before).

I realized after a while I was a bit hypocritical about taking such a strong stance here since I disagree with a lot of other institutions and artists whose works I consume and sometimes enjoy, and in the past year or two I've openly loved some of the singles put out by them. 2012's "Gingham Check" makes great use of some formulaic elements of their sound and those jpop chords I so desperately want a clear English analysis of to create feelings of nostalgia and melancholy and youthful glow, with a great title that seals the deal, and I've of course also been influenced by smart fans like arbitrary_greay who writes

[koganbot]

I'm hoping that AG shows up soon.

I remember* Jiyeon being reported to have said in an interview or on TV that the women in T-ara were allowed to date but that there's no way they could find the time. (Then again, her workload probably way surpasses the others'.) My guess is that in K-pop where there is a prohibition against relationships it's owing to potential fan jealousy, and isn't about - or isn't so much about - so-called sexual purity. But I don't know, and I have a feeling that the groups and agencies are walking a line. I just Googled up this brief and more-intriguing-than-informative allkpop.com article about a 4minute TV interview in which 4minute said they were never forbidden to date, but it has this not contextually clear quote from Jiyoon: "We never had such restrictions. I think the agency knew that we wouldn't be able to have boyfriends." (I'm assuming that she means they wouldn't have the time or opportunity, but maybe she means that the agency knew that the women in 4minute would know better. I hope not

[koganbot]

By the way, just now clicking on that Asian junkie link, I see that IU had a scandal that I know nothing about! Hey, stars! If you're having scandals you need to drop me a note and inform me.

(Okay, I don't haunt allkpop.)

Don't have time to check further today. Am I right in assuming that IU survived her scandal fine, whatever it was?

[askbask]

Well she had and still has a weekly job as a host of Inkigayo and has done other activities, on TV and promotional and live since, and has gained new sponsor deals, so her career never seemed directly affected by it. But now netizens make jokes about that thing on every IU news story, so in terms of public perception it's not necessarily quickly forgotten

[anonymous]

The amount of crap and simplification written all around this thing is amazing. But trying to argue is an automatic TL;DR. Let’s try

[anonymous]

Then you have the role of 2chan: one of the main forums, and (at least that was true until not so long ago, but I’m not sure now) millions of anonymous users. So trolling and acting for your audience is part of the game. So one of the boards that thrown more shit to AKB was Hello! Project, and things like that. Everybody seems to have an agency. Then, after 2chan (a forum that is a total mess) there are news aggregators, sites that post news that are less or more resumes from threads over there (so they post the most outrageous responses (so again people acting for their audience, people “learning” how they should act for being “heard”, etc.) or directly, they invent those responses). These news aggregators could have millions of visits in one day and they are main actors shaping the conversation (their main goal is getting revenue through ads and web traffic). Then sensationalistic media (like Cyzo) pick those rumours (people working for The Japan Times seems to get their revelations from here, so go figure) and if they generate

[koganbot]

Hey, anhh, it's good to have you back. I'd wondered where you'd disappeared to.

I don't have time to write anything right now, except to say that my reaction to this story was much like that of warthoginrome and askbask, which is that there's something going wrong in fandom here - not that this is news. In fact, in regard to K-pop not J-pop, on my very first comment thread on the subject, both you and petronia were quite prescient, at least as far as the T-ara uproar: petronia said: "K-pop has the most insane and deeply frightening fanclub culture ever, and I say this as someone with a full-blown otaku background. It's as much crazy hate of "rivals" as crazy love of the idols in question, said rivalries seem as random in provenance (from an outside perspective at least) as hip-hop beefs, and are sometimes as damaging - people have poisoned the water bottles of and thrown acid at pop stars they dislike." And you said: "the mechanics that one appreciates in forums and blogs is that people are very obsessive and gossipy (usually to such a high degree that pisses you off)

[petronia]

I heard about this and was too disheartened/shocked to even bloviate about it on Tumblr, frankly.

Of course it's the original assumption -- that fans need to buy into the fantasy of their idols' romantic availability -- that's deeply flawed. Like so much that is harmful, things are done this way now solely because it's always been done this way, which allows entrenched interests (in this case, the agencies) to retain their power. I've heard the argument that it would be a nightmare for agencies if the 200 girls they had in groups and in training were all allowed to date, because they would rotate in and out of tabloids and netizens would be engaged in stalking them full time -- which is just putting the onus on the victim not to be victimized by others' bad behaviour. And frankly, not to be a stereotypical leftist about it, but when you see those in positions of power making arguments that amount to "the masses just aren't ready to cope with this level of freedom," it's time to be skeptical about whether the issue really lies with

[arbitrary_greay]

If the no-dating policy disappeared across the board one day, I suspect a few fans will write strongly-worded Internet comments, one or two otaku will make deranged gestures (not like they don't do that now), and 99.9% of the rest will get with the program without sounding the industry's death knell.No death knell for the industry, but there would be large financial impact. Yes, the 48 franchise can arguably break away from the purity fanatic group and survive, but ALL Jpop girlgroups get started on devoted fans who do everything to try and make their group break through, the ones who buy 10 copies or more even without a handshake incentive. Those are the ones who take a chance on shitty music, ridiculous outfits, and girls with no performance talent because they're feeling the purity. I can't really believe individual "enraged fans burn the merchandise they've bought for a member with a scandal" accounts nowadays because the story is so common that current instances feel tongue-in-cheek, but I don't rule out the existence of the

[koganbot]

Don't know when I'll have time to read the stuff you linked. Several questions jump out at me: (1) Why do the fanatic fans insist on "purity" in the first place? Why wouldn't some fans become fanatics over an idol precisely because his/her image is opposite to that?* (2) Is it true that a massively successful group can't jettison its "original" fans and "true" fans? It's not obvious why they couldn't. (Think this might be different in collectible-based Japan as opposed to download-crazy Korea, or is there less difference between the two businesses than I've heard?) (3) Are there groups that succeed without the purity image? In Korea, the answer seems to obviously be "Yes," but then I may be misreading Korea (but: Brown Eyed Girls, 4minute, Psy; and presumably someone's banking on GLAM). Are Big Bang/GD&TOP fans, for instance, insistent on a purity and no-dating rule? I actually don't know this, only knowing those performers through their music and videos. But, like, you know, lotsa chicks in vids, and such

[sub_divided]

Big Bang's fans are as guilty of insane jealousy as any idol fangroup's. They routinely harass Japanese model Kiko, GD's rumored ex, and basically hound, internet stalk, maybe real-life stalk women who appear in pictures with them.

Today, Big Bang don't have that safe idol image, but at one point in time, they did. Jay Park has a similar problem, even though he was barely an idol and isn't one anymore - check out the comments when he tweeted a picture of Biggie and Tupac recently

[arbitrary_greay]

It wouldn't take me very long to figure out my own feelings on the purity aspect of idolling. (It's all bullshit

[arbitrary_greay]

And for some content relevant specifically to the Minami situation:

http://forum.nihongogo.com/topic/14546-news-akb48-team-b-minegishi-minami-demoted-to-kenkyuusei/?p=267852

The reaction of the fandom is weird this time because of all of the international non-fandom attention the issue is getting, which is raising some territorial hackles. Compare to the international attention that AKB got last time when they revealed their literal pastiche member Eguchi Aimi: http://youtu.be/uLReYn1AAgY
Even people who hate the purity system are feeling shades of offended by all of the tarring-by-same-brush being done by international coverage.

[askbask]

Well fuck them if they feel they're the ones who should be offended.

[arbitrary_greay]

^
(anhh talking) A thing I don’t get. You follow Momoiro Clover. If there is a group where “purity” is omnipresent, sure is this one (also Ebichuu and Team Syachihoko). If you don’t think so, think again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRoqAi62GRc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOcW05u805g

[koganbot]

Since I'm the classic late adapter and am still on the old lj format (and can't stand the new), we're about four-fifths of the way to where lj's dreaded "Collapsing All Your Nested Threads" policy goes into effect. So, to prevent that, I've started a new Minami thread:

Minami 2