more ds9 discussion

[kindkit]

I've watched through 5x04; please avoid mentioning spoilers (including character development or revelations of character backstory) for any episodes past that. Thanks!

I've only commented on episodes that, well, I had something to say about. DS9 also has quite a few episodes that I like well enough but that don't really inspire thoughts.

Comments

[skywaterblue]

Yeah, one of the interesting things is that the Bajoran religion doesn't appear to have a lot of sex or gender hangups. (In that both men and women serve apparently equally in the priesthood and there seems to be no restriction on their priests getting married and having children.) So it's kind of surprising that all evidence suggests that there's no polyamory on Bajor.

I don't think there's a lot of Julian/Miles/Nerys/Keiko fic out there - in part, I would gather, because while it's easy to see how say, a Julian Miles Keiko household would work, or a Nerys Keiko Miles household, I'm imagining a rocky road for the household that mixes Kira and Bashir.

The vaguest most maddening comment: one of these episode reactions makes me eager for you to watch the rest of season five.

[kindkit]

I'm imagining a rocky road for the household that mixes Kira and Bashir

I see what you mean, although they do canonically have some attraction to each other. (In the episode where Lwaxana Troi was accidentally inflicting her lovesickness on everyone, Kira and Bashir ended up making out, and it was specified that Lwaxana's telepathy only worked on people who had at least a subconscious pre-existing attraction.) Of course, whether they could get along is another story.

To the extent that I'd thought through the details at all, I guess what I was picturing was an arrangement where Keiko is sexually involved with Miles, Nerys and Julian, and Miles is sexually involved with Keiko, Nerys, and Julian, but Nerys and Julian probably don't have sex together and are more sort of . . . sharing territory?

one of these episode reactions makes me eager for you to watch the rest of season five

Heh. I got a similar comment at DreamWidth; apparently something I said will turn out to be either very wrong or very right.

[astrogirl2]

Speaking of Garak, I found myself unexpectedly sympathetic to his attempt to commit "a little genocide in the name of self-defense."

I felt so sympathetic towards him on that one that I remember moaning in frustration when Worf showed up and stopped him -- it was Worf, right? it's been a while since I've seen it -- and then going, "What the--? Was I just rooting for a character to commit genocide?!" Yes. Yes, I was. Just for a moment. It was a fascinating and disturbing experience, and encapsulates a lot of what I love about DS9. It is the shades-of-gray Trek.

[kindkit]

Because I think Garak is made of awesome, I find myself on his side anyway and I occasionally have to remind myself that he's a lot more ruthless than he superficially appears to be and he's done some ugly things.

It is an interesting moral question, though: how far is it legitimate to go in self-defense? If you know someone's planning genocide against your people, can you genocide them first? Or do you have to wait until they actually start the process--at which point your people may not be able to defend themselves anymore?

[van]

Goodness you're blazing through these, aren't you? You've inspired me to start watching DS9 again and I'm only on the last episode of S5. I suspect you're soon going to pass me up!

Still, I enjoy your reviews of the episodes. You're definitely watching some of it in a different way than I did, and I appreciate the alternative POV. (It's also helping me remember some of what happened before, as I stopped watching almost a year ago.)

I agree with skywaterblue about the Miles/Keiko/Nerys/Julian thing. I could see it working, except for the Nerys/Julian part. I think a talented writer could pull it off, but it does seem problematic. Theoretically though, of course you're right--there's absolutely no reason that people like Odo and Kira would only be able to imagine monogamous relationships. Ah well. I find annoying little lines like that all over the place. Trek is hardly the only exception, sigh.

[kindkit]

I've been watching a ton of episodes, because I'm really stressed out and insomniac right now. Also, I urgently want to read fanfic, but not until I've seen the whole show. It's an incentive to hurry.

except for the Nerys/Julian part

*nods* I don't think Nerys and Julian would necessarily be sexually involved with each other (although they do have some canonical attraction); they might just be something like co-spouses, with each one involved with both Miles and Keiko. But as I said in my response to skywaterblue, that does still leave the question of whether Kira and Bashir could even get along in the same household.

[viciouswishes]

I always figured that Keiko and Miles had an understanding about Julian. Miles could have a secondary partner if it didn't interrupt Keiko and Miles' marriage.

[kindkit]

Yeah, I could see that. (And Julian's love life must be awfully complicated. As of early S5 he's dating Miles and Leeta and Garak! *grins*)

[prelocandkanar]

Loving reading your reviews

[kindkit]

I just cannot/do not/will never ship Julian and Miles. I guess I'm too into Julian and Garak

I wouldn't say I ship Bashir/O'Brien. I do like their relationship and think they have chemistry, but ultimately I think Garak is a more complicated match for Bashir. Plus, O'Brien loves his wife, and any sexual/romantic relationship with Bashir could only ever be secondary. Which is fine, but doesn't tickle my shippy instincts so much.

Trouble is, there's been very little in the way of Garak-Bashir interaction for the last couple of seasons. That doesn't make it impossible to me to ship them, because I don't think subtext is the only route to shipping (there's also what are sometimes called "alchemy" pairings, where the writer just happens to think two characters would be great together, and turns canonical lead into fanfic gold). But it does make shipping a little harder.

I'm hoping for some good Garak-Bashir moments before the series ends, but I don't want to count on it.