I see what you're trying to do. And understand it. But I also see this as a bit of a slippery slope. The line between concrit and patronizing is a fine one and one that only a few people are tactful enough, the diplomats among us, to walk. Different people have different sensitivity levels. In fact, the same person could have different sensitivity levels just based on what mood they're in that day. And things like characterization are relative. I may see something in a characters that is not perceived by someone else. I don't think there are set definitions to anything. I don't think you can neatly put anyone or anything in a box.
I agree with verizonhorizon that most people look to fandom as a stress reliever, not a stress inducer, and those who don't ask for concrit probably aren't looking for it. Personally, I see feedback as kind of a reward. And no, that doesn't help the author fine-tune their craft, but I don't consider myself expert enough on the subject of creative writing to assist another to do that. I'm just an amateur myself, so I
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Oh my darling, I was by no means trying to say that you're trying to start an online flogging movement. I know you better than that. I totally see what you're trying to do. And I agree that a concrit community for authors who willingly participate is a great idea. We can all help each other grow, it's beautiful. I don't think I'll ever reach a point where I wont see myself needing to improve. There is not one fic of mine that I can point to and say 'it's perfect the way it is'. I'll be the first to admit it. I'm far too self-critical, especially of my writing (some days more than others, lol) for that. And I'd welcome insight from other authors whose work I admire. You know, the people I want to be when I grow up
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When I read this, I had 2 questions popping up in my head immediately. First, is he fearless or 'fearless'? And second, why is he like this?
I don't bring it up for any perticular reason, just food for my thought.
As for related stuff, I realize that I came off as patronizing, and that wasn't my intention at all, but whatever. The thing is, for me, it's never about whose opinion is right or wrong. It's about whether we can find the truth together. Those discussions I mentioned? I wasn't in them to 'win.' I accepted my partner's position as often as I convinced them, if not more often. It's not about making everyone think like I think. It wasn't about that at all.
But, you know, whatever. I think I'll just stick to writing posts from now on. I'm just not ready to run for the most hated person in the fandom. Maybe some day, but not yet. ;)
With a different fandom I was interested in a year or so ago, we had the same problem/relaxed-setting. If you couldn't say anything nice, don't say anything at all, and all that. So I started a forum in which authors could submit their work to be criticized in depth. Whoever submitted their work was guaranteed to receive an in-depth, honest, LONG review, at least by me, though more people joined in after awhile. For the first week or two, I can honestly say that there was about ONE story submitted, and i put it up and we did our thing. While it took a while to become something that people really started submitting to, for the people who did submit, I think it was actually really good. If you do start this up, I'd definitely want to get involved in writing up some more in-depth reviews with more constructive things. While it might be the same thing, and it'll take a while to be something people really want to submit stuff to, it seems like one of those kind of necessary things in a fandom that includes people who honestly want
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That sounds like an awesome experience you had there. I'm glad it worked out for you and for that fandom.
After having this discussion, I'm not sure I'll be starting a comm of any kind. I seem to be inducing inordinate amounts of stress by merely suggesting it. Concrit is my idea of fun, but I seem to be in the minority. So 'awesome, thanks' it is for the time being. ;)
I'm sorry you got left feeling a bit battered by this discussion. I for one am glad that you raised the topic and have found it interesting and enlightening to follow the discussion. So thanks for that!
Jumping in here a little late, but I wanted to drop my two cents. I started a comm for essentially this purpose only dealing with vids. It's vid_critics if you wanted to check out the comm rules and see how it was set up. It flourished for awhile before dying a slow death. I couldn't get the members to leave feedback. Many were too scared of offending the vidder, even though the vidder was asking for the concrit.
It became too hard for me to keep up on and I actually have 3 vids lingering in limbo that have yet to be reviewed. But I thought it was an excellent idea and had a lot of support at the start. I would love to see a community such as this for fanfiction. As much as I love random hearts and showering of love, the comments that tell me 'why' it worked for the reader are what I enjoy the most.
And I know it doesn't work for many, as well, and would love to know why so that I could improve my writing. So, you have my vote for this idea. I would definitely submit stories as well as participate in the discussions.
I'm still mulling on it. Your experience with a vid comm is, I believe, very telling. I think it's about different definitions of fun and trouble most of us have. Thanks for sharing, I'll be sure to check it out. Every bit counts.
I dunno. There are a lot of pitfalls, as has been pointed out. I'm mulling.
I think you'd have takers. I have an excellent beta, so I generally turn to her for my concrit, but if I wrote something in a fandom she wasn't familiar with, or if it was particularly out of the realms of my usual work, yeah ... I'd consider submitting it to the comm.
Noted, bb. I'm thinking it's more perhaps than I can currently chew, but this idea has been wandering around my head for a while, so I brought it up. Good to know where you stand, you know?
Totally. It would be a heck of a lot of work for you, you're quite right. Rewarding perhaps, but maybe one of those ventures it's best to begin with support? Or at least one additional mod?
MTE. I asked because for me, discussing characterizations is fun, as well as profit, but since for most people it's apparently not like this, okay. I'm not ready (and for what reason?) to drag anybody up and force feed them some bitter pills or something. That was never my idea, anyway.
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I agree with verizonhorizon that most people look to fandom as a stress reliever, not a stress inducer, and those who don't ask for concrit probably aren't looking for it. Personally, I see feedback as kind of a reward. And no, that doesn't help the author fine-tune their craft, but I don't consider myself expert enough on the subject of creative writing to assist another to do that. I'm just an amateur myself, so I ( ... )
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Kirk is fearless.
When I read this, I had 2 questions popping up in my head immediately. First, is he fearless or 'fearless'? And second, why is he like this?
I don't bring it up for any perticular reason, just food for my thought.
As for related stuff, I realize that I came off as patronizing, and that wasn't my intention at all, but whatever. The thing is, for me, it's never about whose opinion is right or wrong. It's about whether we can find the truth together. Those discussions I mentioned? I wasn't in them to 'win.' I accepted my partner's position as often as I convinced them, if not more often. It's not about making everyone think like I think. It wasn't about that at all.
But, you know, whatever. I think I'll just stick to writing posts from now on. I'm just not ready to run for the most hated person in the fandom. Maybe some day, but not yet. ;)
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After having this discussion, I'm not sure I'll be starting a comm of any kind. I seem to be inducing inordinate amounts of stress by merely suggesting it. Concrit is my idea of fun, but I seem to be in the minority. So 'awesome, thanks' it is for the time being. ;)
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Yes, you and me both. :D
I believe at the moment, though, I need a little breather. ;)
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how's the air where you are these days? more breathable?
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It became too hard for me to keep up on and I actually have 3 vids lingering in limbo that have yet to be reviewed. But I thought it was an excellent idea and had a lot of support at the start. I would love to see a community such as this for fanfiction. As much as I love random hearts and showering of love, the comments that tell me 'why' it worked for the reader are what I enjoy the most.
And I know it doesn't work for many, as well, and would love to know why so that I could improve my writing. So, you have my vote for this idea. I would definitely submit stories as well as participate in the discussions.
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I dunno. There are a lot of pitfalls, as has been pointed out. I'm mulling.
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