mustard, mostly

[keturn]

One of the things I found interesting in Gabe Zichermann's Mastering Gamification talk was his discussion of Richard Bartle's player types. His audience for this talk is a bunch of Google engineers, and to them he says:
You here in this room are not normal, you are way more achievement-oriented than the average population. If I gave you an

Comments

[anonamyst]

I sometimes wonder if the alcohol thing does dampen that. I don't know though.
I might just like it because 'I can't drink' is an easy excuse for not going to many drinking parties.

[ext_334510]

Alcohol actually makes people around you look nicer to you. This is strange, but it's a fact.

I'm from Ukraine which borders with Russia, and must know a thing or two about drinking.

We even have a saying that there are no ugly women, there's just insufficient amount of vodka. :)

[ext_334510]

Are you really thinking those people are really more intimate with one another than with you? Listen more carefully, and it will be generic chit-chat about nothing. It's just that you probably prefer to keep silent when you have nothing to say (IMO Douglas Adams was right that when people shut their mouths, their brains start working

[keturn]

> Are you really thinking those people are really more intimate with one another than with you?

That wasn't the point I was going for. What I was mostly thinking there is that it seems like the party or first date with the chit-chat is the most common stepping stone to building intimacy.

But yes, I think that you're right that if I more often practiced expressing curiosity about people in these settings, that would help navigate them.

[ext_334510]

However, I highly doubt you will find some really good friends you can be more with if they enjoy environments and activities you don't.

To get intimate, there must be at least several common points. You must be tuned to the same wavelength, or be ready to retune yourself, and have a good reason to do that: having interest in other people's activities you don't personally enjoy too much, without expecting that favor to be returned and without feeling bad about the favor not being returned, either.

Take whatever things I say, however, with a grain of salt. As I've told already, these things are good if you want to make more friends and feel accepted, or be able to speak language of the non-geek world, but they don't work if you have a romantic interest on your mind. It's a recipe to be deemed “nice guy” and “friend-zoned” forever.

[istar]

Yaroslav Fedevych, you write the sharp truth. Have you ever considered trying PUA (pickup artistry)?

[istar]

I don't like social gatherings where the aim is to do nothing while drinking, but I know very few people who do that type of thing. I do *love* discussing geeky topics or playing board games with people over a few beers, though

[freyley]

I far prefer social events with a shared goal or a strong group feeling. The latter seems primarily to be generated by (accidental or deliberate) exclusivity _or_ a shared goal. Thus the most intimate social environments I've ever had were late nights at freegeek, narnia, and the nth event of a highly consistent group. I don't think you can get intimacy without one of those two things and I regret that our world is set up to avoid them. Most people pour far too much of our energy into work to be able to spend time on goals, and few people are good organizers and want to organize outside of work. And we've been told since infancy that exclusivity is bad (=cults, in the worst case

[keturn]

See also reply to Paul about decoupling having fun from building intimacy.

I agree, board games are probably an ineffective intimacy-building tool, but if people are having fun together that's preferable to the awkward party where people are standing apart and checking their cell phones.

[stereotype441]

Hmm, my two cents (which may not be worth any more than that): social events don't build intimacy because that's not what they're for. They're for keeping your social circle broad (and broadening it). And they're for figuring out who in your social circle you have things in common with (or mutual romantic interest with) so you can spend more focused, quality time together in smaller groups and one-on-one. It's in those smaller groups and one-on-ones that you build intimacy. And I think that's true whether we're talking friendship intimacy or romantic intimacy (it's not clear to me which one you mean

[keturn]

> And I think that's true whether we're talking friendship intimacy or romantic intimacy (it's not clear to me which one you mean).

Either, both, really.

Hmm. I think, in transitioning from the "Ah, isn't that interesting" to the "I seem to be having tremendous difficulties with my lifestyle"[1] portion of the above, I didn't frame the question quite as I meant. But now is time for sleeping, maybe I'll straighten it out in the morning.

But thanks for the two cents.

[1]: don't take that "tremendous" literally; it's a poorly adapted Hitchhiker's Guide quote.

[ext_334510]

What I suck at is having the gumption to say to someone that I only know from large social gatherings, "hey, we have this particular thing in common. How'd you like to get together sometime and talk about/do that thing?" If you have any ideas about how to get better at that let me know.

Just try to come up to a person and tell clearly precisely what you've written. It works. I have checked.

“- Hey man, I really appreciate the software you've presented at FoobazCon lately. Lemme tell you, I've used your framework/library in my own thing, it does [such and such]. How 'bout having a coffee over there?”

Trust me, if the person in question isn't a total jerk, you will end up having a rewarding conversation.

[stereotype441]

True, your experiences resonate with mine. But my personal difficulty is not in deciding what to say, it's in getting past my shyness and actually saying it (hence my use of the word "gumption").

Your comments in this thread suggest to me that you are not a naturally shy person, so I'm guessing you probably don't generally have the experience of knowing what you would like to say and not being able to say it. Were you always this way or were you once shy like me? If so, how did you get past your shyness?

Speaking for myself, it's been really beneficial for me to remember (and celebrate) the times when I have found a way to get past my shyness, and use those stories to rewrite the narrative that says "I'm a shy person" into one that says "I'm someone who is capable of reaching out to people I don't know very well and connecting with them". But I'm curious whether a person such as yourself, who has probably gone further along this particular spectrum of personal growth, has other ideas about how to make that mental shift.