The Text, the Whole Text, and the Context

[kerravonsen]

I was pondering bible-studies I had participated in, and I realised something. Many Christians just sit around in bible-studies and wait to be told what to think. How totally bizarre! What do they think bible-studies are for? A place where someone in authority (the leader) spoon-feeds them pre-digested doctrine, and then they have a cup of tea and

Comments

[reynardo]

Yeah, but as someone who *has* asked questions in Bible Study (and who was a Christian at the time), I got told I couldn't possibly question the subject because I wasn't an expert in it, and my friend who invited me was asked if I really *was* a Christian because I didn't just accept the Word.

So it will depend totally on the group, I'm afraid.

(I discovered later that my question was actually pretty accurate and did pertain to an important point in translation)

[kerravonsen]

I am not surprised, considering (from what you have already told me) how toxic that damned place was (and, yes, I use the word "damned" deliberately). Shit. I mean, the statement "couldn't possibly question the subject because I wasn't an expert in it" is completely illogical: surely it is the NON-expert who would have the most questions? Does one have to be qualified before one can ask questions? That's just... ludicrous. Or grotesque. (*headdesk*)

[reynardo]

That was actually the Anglicans.

The Pentecostals just tried to exorcise me. Much more direct.

[arwitchywoman]

Oh, you've pushed my buttons! I hate this so much.

It amazes me that intelligent people accept what is told them by the doctrine of their church because they feel they have to accept it on 'faith.'

I may be one of the most religious people you'll meet and I'm all 'BS' about that. God gifted us with a brain and he/she/it expects us to use it. For me, the more I try to intelligently decipher doctrine, the more I'm able to accept it. I refuse to accept it on someone's word alone.

Sorry, hijack post. I can get preachy.

[kerravonsen]

Not hijacking at all! This is juicy discussion.

God gifted us with a brain and he/she/it expects us to use it.

Exactly.

For me, the more I try to intelligently decipher doctrine, the more I'm able to accept it. I refuse to accept it on someone's word alone.Yep. (nods) On someone's word alone, no. ESPECIALLY if that someone is telling me I'm not allowed to question it

[jaxomsride]

I've never done Bible studies outside RE lessons at school. There it very much depended on the teacher we had, but most did not encourage too much "questioning of Faith". It wasn't so much discussion of doctrine as indoctrination.

[kerravonsen]

It wasn't so much discussion of doctrine as indoctrination.
(sigh)
Yeah. Then again, RE and Sunday School were really more about telling kids what to believe, and people don't tend to be very intellectually rigorous with kids.

But bible-studies with adults? I expect adults to know better.

but most did not encourage too much "questioning of Faith"

Possibly they considered it disruptive, since they were supposed to be "lessons". Then again, they could also have been of the school of thought (also exemplified in Reynardo's comment above) that "questions" imply doubt and dissent, rather than a quest for understanding. Dumb.

Mind you, some questions are disruptive and full of dissent; they hold at their base hostility towards the teaching. Trick questions like "Can God make something too heavy for him to lift?" or the various questions that the Pharisees asked Jesus trying to trap him.

So, yeah, for someone who is all "ask questions" I also oddly believe that there are some questions which shouldn't be asked.

[reapermum]

I think of theology and quantum physics in the same way, I can't understand either beyond the edges. But I will take on faith what the experts who know tell me about both. And neither has the full story yet, and probably never will do here on earth.

On problem I have with bible studies is the fact it has gone through several languages before it reached me. And each translation was provided by mankind, which is fallible. So anything that depends on precise wording can be questioned, we need to get to the underlying truth of what God is telling us.

[kerravonsen]

I think of theology and quantum physics in the same way, I can't understand either beyond the edges. But I will take on faith what the experts who know tell me about both. And neither has the full story yet, and probably never will do here on earth.

(nod nod nod)

On problem I have with bible studies is the fact it has gone through several languages before it reached me.

Several? Modern translations don't translate into intermediary languages, they go direct from the ancient Hebrew (or Greek) to the destination language. Or did you mean something else?

[reapermum]

Several? Modern translations don't translate into intermediary languages

I was thinking intermediate languages and versions before we get the fixed text of the bible. For example, I doubt the parables were told in Greek. So there'll be the original words straight from Jesus himself, then what his followers remembered of what they heard, both in Aramaic. Then translating it into Greek and probably editing to get a version everyone could agree to, before getting to the version that was translated into English.

[kerravonsen]

For example, I doubt the parables were told in Greek.So there'll be the original words straight from Jesus himself, then what his followers remembered of what they heard, both in Aramaic. Then translating it into Greek...

Um, what makes you think they were all speaking Aramaic rather than Greek?

[sue_bursztynski]

If you want a religion that actually encourages you to argue, drop in on a Jewish Bible studies class. That's why there are so many books and interpretations and interpretations of interpretations. That's why we have so many lawyers and scientists. They know how to argue.

Kathryn, I very much doubt Yeshua of Nazareth spoke Greek, even Koine. It certainly wouldn't have been the everyday language of the Jewish population. Aramaic was much more likely. The fact that the Gospels were written long after his time, however, suggests that perhaps you may be right about the language. I do think, however, that there would have been a lot of translating and rewriting over the centuries.

[kerravonsen]

If you want a religion that actually encourages you to argue, drop in on a Jewish Bible studies class.

Ha! That would be fun.

[sue_bursztynski]

There's a saying: "Two Jews, three opinions." It applies both to religious and secular arguments. It's how the kids learn.