Act of the Imagination

[ken_schneyer]

I'm trying to imagine: If I belonged to an organization that contained actual Nazis (i.e., people who honestly believe (and say publicly) that it would have been better if the 25% of my extended family that survived the Holocaust hadn't), would I want to resign from the organization unless those people were expelled

Comments

[girlspell]

Lunatic Fringe is everywhere in any organization, even even something mundane like the scouting movement. Part of the risk of joining a organization with the intent of expressing views or changing something. I have libertarian beliefs but I won't join the Tea Party movement, something my like leaning husband has joined. They're plenty born again Nazi there, but just as many in the government of Norway. But Norway (sadly) and the Tea Party are not going away. They are there and they have every right to stay there. I'm like you. Suspicious of being in both directions. So I just stop listening. And really NOT say something. Political correctness still reigns. Because words have power.

[amamama]

Excuse me? Why would you say there are plenty born again Nazis in the Norwegian government, and why is it sad that Norway won't go away?

[ken_schneyer]

Thanks, Rachel.

[girlspell]

LOL...you're being polite :) I can't help it. I love to irk people. I'll even book a flight to Norway.

[asakiyume]

I think, too, that it can be hard to try to come up with a general-case response because so much may depend on the specifics: the nature of the organization (its power, membership, purpose), the nature of the speech, the context, and so on. Ideally, organizations try to have clear rules about what they tolerate and what they don't, and clear consequences for infractions of the rules. However, there's still plenty of room for argument even when that ideal condition is met.... and in plenty of circumstances it may not be.

It's definitely also true that real-world decisions about real-world difficult matters are going to leave some contingent of people unhappy. Action in the real world is never innocent; you can *never* be all-good, all-pure, all-correct. If you're going to work to make things better, you have to accept the burden of sometimes being wrong, and even causing harm--though of course you try your best not to.

[ken_schneyer]

Thanks!

Skokie 1978

[ext_762176]

Soon after I moved to Chicago for graduate school, I learned that Nazis were going to march in Skokie, Illinois. That was scary for me even without being Jewish. I'm sure the many Jewish residents of Skokie, many of them concentration camp survivors, were terrified

Re: Skokie 1978

[ken_schneyer]

Thanks, Shauna. It's less about making a decision for myself, and more about trying to deal with the fact that I'm almost never the target of the crap that keeps happening at SFWA, SFF cons, etc.

[amamama]

One of my flisties, who's a teacher for challenged youth, had one of her students spout Nazi propaganda and went up to him and asked if he had thought this through? Did he really mean that? Should she be killed just because of the faith of her ancestors? Of course not, was his answer, he didn't mean to imply that. So there was a discussion that wore her out, but this young man got to see that his ideas were not about some nebuous group, or rather: he saw his nebulous group materialise into one of his favourite teachers. That changed something for him. And I think that's the problem with a lot of socalled born again Nazis. Have they really thought it through? Are they aware of what this "belief" they're spouting really means? I think it's too easy to put "others" in nebulus groups, be they jews or muslims, coffee party or tea party, vegans or meateaters, dark or pale skinned. Or whatever

[ken_schneyer]

Thanks, Berte!