Thank you! I've had other people tell me that it's wanky. That "fen" has been used as the plural of "fan" since the 60's. To me, that still doesn't justify it. It's annoying, and too often done by people who think it's oh-so-cute.
I respectfully disagreedglennJanuary 15 2006, 01:37:12 UTC
While 'fen' may have begun as a "gee I'm so clever" plural, it has, over time become its own thing, a shorthand for science fiction and fantasy fans in particular. I have never heard the phrases "baseball fen" or "Redskins fen", for example, even from those who let the word 'fen' fall easily into conversation when speaking of f/sf fandom.
Note that I write "science fiction fans" because "science fiction fen" would look strange and feel redundant to me, much as "ATM machine", "the hoi polloi", or "from whence" do. (And in my not-so-humble opinion, each of those is a graver cut for English to suffer than 'fen' is. Then again, I also consider 'appendixes' in place of 'appendices' one of those thousand paper cuts but see 'fen' as merely being an example of jargon'VAXen', 'boxen', 'octopuddykittens', 'meese', and "the banananana problem" do strike me as self-consciously clever -- I use them occasionally, but (with the exception of 'VAXen' in front of specific audiences) only in contexts where that sort of playfulness of language fits
( ... )
I have to respectfully disagree with your disagreement. Especially with the counter-examples you're providing. There is one accepted definition in the dictionary (using m-w.com as my reference) for "fen" that is specific to English (the other two are Chinese terms), and that is "low land covered wholly or partly with water unless artificially drained". On the other hand, the same source provides definitions of "race" that include "a contest of speed" and "a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock". There are no definitions of "broadcast" that include only women transmitting anything, though there is "to transmit or make public by means of radio or television", and likewise "homogeneous" has never meant "man-like", as the Greek roots "homo" (meaning "same") and "genus" (meaning "type") are combined to create a word meaning "of the same type", and "homogenize" means "to make of the same type", as a result. It is the Greek root "homo" used in the word "homonym", not the Latin "homo" (meaning "man"), to further
( ... )
I think you missed the point of my examples. I'm perfectly aware of their etymologies; I meant to point out that merely having a homonym doesn't make a word "bad" -- the fact that you hear "marsh" when someone says "fen" is not a problem imherent to the word. (It is a problem, obviously, since you complained about it. The problem is not inherent in that use of "fen" any more than someone misunderstanding which "homo-" root another word derives from is inherent to those words
( ... )
But the problem was that the examples didn't make sense, aside from "race" because the meanings you were imparting to "broadcast" and "homogenize" simply don't exist. "Race" has a variety of well-understood and widely-used meanings, and therefore context is very important to understanding which meaning is intended. On the other hand, "fen" has only one accepted and understood meaning; a marsh. Other meanings are a) non-standard and b) specific to a particular usage by a particular sub-culture
( ... )
I think I win when i say 'fen' is the gayest word i've ever seen. And to use it in place of "fans" is going above and beyond the level of mental retardation.
Well, I may not go quite so far as to say that, but I think that non-standard use outside of contexts where jargon is appropriate is pretty tacky. A public forum that is intended for the purpose of communication is not an appropriate context for jargon, and therefore, keep your bloody sci-fi fanish cutesy jargon use of "fen" where it belongs; at the Trek convention! ~_^
"Trek convention"? What a pitifully limited idea of science fiction conventions and fannish culture. (Hint: some Trek cons are proper science fiction conventions that just have a Trek orientation; others bear no more than superficial resemblance to the rest of fannish culture and have a lot of attendees ignorant of the full scope of fandom.)
See, I don't even see where that would come from. It's certainly something that I wouldn't understand without the context. And when I see the word at first I just figure it is a typo.
That, I don't don't get what's so hard about "fans", or what there needs to be a distinction between particular types of fans. But that's me. And I acknowledge being a bit of a snob about these things, and about precise use of language. No value judgments implied, insofar as telling you "you're wrong and you can never use it". Instead, it's something that raises my hackles (again, admitting to being very sensitive about language), and when I see it coming from a community were people rant about spelling and grammar in fanfic, I find it curious that someone would intentionally misuse the language. *shrugs*
Actually, I think I picked it up and sort of adopted it into my "fan vocabulary" about threeish years ago, once again, in a discussion about fanart. And I thought the same thing too, *it as a typo* the first time I read it.
I then reread it, figured that it was a fan thing and shrugged, said "oh hell, why not" and figured that I'd keep it for a rainy day.
Do I use it in reference to fanfiction, hell no, that's the only time I actually care to be a grammar nazi *lie, that's the only time I'll actually pay attention to grammar at all, and only then, after I shove it to my beta reader*.
That, and that's the only time the critics are looking at me is through my grammar. They only care about the fic. The fanart discussions they tend to leave alone.
Oh yeah...and I usually keep quiet in there. In fact, I've never posted a rant in there. I only comment, and sparingly at that. But seeing someone post by starting out "Dear YuGiOh! fen," today, combined with being in a bitchy, crabby mood, got me on edge. I was going to post in ffrants, but thought "nah, it will be wank before I've hit the 'post' button on my client." So I decided to post here, as I say in the OP, to limit the drama.
Now I just need to keep people from tearing out each others' throats and keep the disagreement civil. ;)
On a side note: welcome to my journal. I didn't realize you'd picked up reading it. *laughs*
Comments 30
Reply
Reply
Note that I write "science fiction fans" because "science fiction fen" would look strange and feel redundant to me, much as "ATM machine", "the hoi polloi", or "from whence" do. (And in my not-so-humble opinion, each of those is a graver cut for English to suffer than 'fen' is. Then again, I also consider 'appendixes' in place of 'appendices' one of those thousand paper cuts but see 'fen' as merely being an example of jargon'VAXen', 'boxen', 'octopuddykittens', 'meese', and "the banananana problem" do strike me as self-consciously clever -- I use them occasionally, but (with the exception of 'VAXen' in front of specific audiences) only in contexts where that sort of playfulness of language fits ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
<3 you kat.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Because in my mind, fen was associated with the other side of the Pond and anyone else was a fan.
But that was back when I was obsessed over fanart as I tend to avoid the ranting communities like the plague.
Quite possiblity because I get tied up in the wank regardless. ^^;
Reply
That, I don't don't get what's so hard about "fans", or what there needs to be a distinction between particular types of fans. But that's me. And I acknowledge being a bit of a snob about these things, and about precise use of language. No value judgments implied, insofar as telling you "you're wrong and you can never use it". Instead, it's something that raises my hackles (again, admitting to being very sensitive about language), and when I see it coming from a community were people rant about spelling and grammar in fanfic, I find it curious that someone would intentionally misuse the language. *shrugs*
Reply
I then reread it, figured that it was a fan thing and shrugged, said "oh hell, why not" and figured that I'd keep it for a rainy day.
Do I use it in reference to fanfiction, hell no, that's the only time I actually care to be a grammar nazi *lie, that's the only time I'll actually pay attention to grammar at all, and only then, after I shove it to my beta reader*.
That, and that's the only time the critics are looking at me is through my grammar. They only care about the fic. The fanart discussions they tend to leave alone.
But lemme' guess, you're in fanficrants?
*more wank in there than the entire FMA fandom*
Reply
Now I just need to keep people from tearing out each others' throats and keep the disagreement civil. ;)
On a side note: welcome to my journal. I didn't realize you'd picked up reading it. *laughs*
Reply
Leave a comment