On Cyclists: or, How Representative Systems Operate

Sep 13, 2009 22:01

Proposed cycling tax in ScotlandI am utterly 100% behind providing better services for cyclists, including dedicated cycle networks entirely outwith the road network ( Read more... )

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colicub September 14 2009, 01:01:37 UTC
Being in a single lane of traffic, with no opportunity to overtake, whilst a cyclist makes their merry way up the road at 20mph or less is one of the most frustrating things that can happen to a motorist.

Not to mention the number of cyclists on the road who seem to have absolutely no awareness of the world around them - I have seen, on more than one occasion, a cyclist quickly pulling out into the path of a car or bus, neccessitating quick braking and stress for the driver.

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footpad September 14 2009, 18:10:33 UTC
... most frustrating things...

Heartily seconded. As a cyclist, I try very hard not to do that.

... absolutely no awareness...

Objection. That cuts both ways-I get cut up by car drivers quite often enough not to accept that as a specific criticism of cyclists.

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kasyx September 14 2009, 18:43:19 UTC
Yes, I was trying very hard not to make blanket suggestions about the abilities of drivers or cyclists, especially as I have little experience of either.

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maleficent September 14 2009, 07:46:14 UTC
I choose to walk? Well, I pay council tax, don't I?

As do cyclists, last time I checked.

Roads are there to get people from A to B. They were there before the cars were.

Anyone choosing to drive a car in the centres of towns should not only be paying road tax but congestion charges and idiot fees.

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kasyx September 14 2009, 12:23:21 UTC
Cyclists do, so they can choose to walk.

Your second statement is correct.

I agree with your third statement.

I know this is going to sound obtuse, and I don't mean it as such, bu am I missing something in your argument? I don't really see anything against what I was saying.

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maleficent September 14 2009, 12:38:23 UTC
Cyclists pay for public services through council tax so they, like any other citizens, can choose to use the roads to cycle on, as the law entitles all of us ( ... )

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kasyx September 14 2009, 12:44:56 UTC
First, I have edited my post to highlight what I thought was apparent - I walk on pavements, not on the road.

Secondly, as meraesha pointed out above, vehicle excise duty (road tax) covers not just damage to the road, but also damage to other people's comfort on the road, and to offset mechanisms for increasing traffic flow. These are the two places where cyclists have a massive and disproportionate effect, and what most drivers have a problem with.

Bikes are indeed vehicles on the road like any other, in which case, to get the same privileges, they need to contribute proportionally, which they do not currently do. At the moment they are getting a free ride.

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felineparadox September 14 2009, 17:33:12 UTC
Why could you not have posted something more like this to my LJ entry, rather than swearing?

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kasyx September 14 2009, 17:49:16 UTC
The sentiment is exactly the same. This is why I was so shocked at your response last night, instead of asking me what I meant. Why do you think I wrote this here? You banned me from commenting on your journal, allowing me no recourse to explain.

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felineparadox September 14 2009, 18:08:53 UTC
It appeared that you put up a reactionary comment rather than sitting down and thinking about it, hence the ban (I finally found the button to remove it!) over night.

I was all full of 'rah rah rah' when I was walking home having seen the headline wanting to write to my MP etc. But then I considered it and wrote the post that I did. I stand by my comments.

Can I point out the issue of expenditure and how the council recoups it, which is the crux of both our exasperated attitudes;

< a href=http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocID=45976>Bus route development grant scheme"18million pounds has been made available for the whole of Scotland for the next three years." Not much I grant you, but should this be pulled as well? It would only be fair to stop all council or government funding of other public facilities too ( ... )

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kasyx September 14 2009, 18:50:19 UTC
I don't quite see how that document is relevant. To me it makes perfect fiscal sense to support the means that provide the greatest returns. Even if the government succeed in getting 10% of journeys made by cycles, I can still see any such money spent on transport in general being better spent on supporting public transport such as the buses. Obviously without a proper consultation I can't really comment exactly, but I suspect that the cost-per-head of supporting cyclists to the extent that that they want over the cost-per-head of supporting mass public transport is significantly higher.

However, that is a different, albeit equally interesting, argument.

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footpad September 14 2009, 21:45:38 UTC
I totally agree that a proportion of cyclists are bloody inconsiderate. But I put it to you: how much does a considerate, law-abiding cyclist cost society? Especially by the time you've factored in their lower medical costs, their vastly lower threat, and the social and environmental benefits of getting a car off the road ( ... )

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kasyx September 15 2009, 15:23:28 UTC
I would pose that even considerate law-abiding cyclists would hold up traffic at some point - whether they were in a rush, or cycling with someone else and forgot about the traffic or so on ( ... )

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kasyx September 15 2009, 15:26:20 UTC
*ridiculous arguments that some cyclists have or may have against it.

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footpad September 15 2009, 17:12:34 UTC
Thanks. :) I had a but!but!but! lined up for that one. :)

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