Archetypes in the arcana discourses - first part

[kangeiko]

Where single-person narratives dominate the folktale, the montage of characters now has strength in pop-culture. We have multi-character shows and tales, where it is unclear where our loyalties are expected to lie. I'm talking about shows, texts and films such as Deadwood, Rome, Star Trek (in its many incarnations, although perhaps not TOS),

Comments

[kangeiko]

YAY! *bounces around*

[wingsmith]

The only show here i've seen recently enough to comment on is WW.

I find it difficult to see Sam as our eyes in "premiere" at least initially as Sorkin introduces to all of the major characters and then hits a long introductory shot which follows leo. I'm not saying leo is the narrative centre of the west wing, i just think it rotates, between and often within episodes. Witness the dual narratives in celestial navigation: Josh's speech to the students, and sam and toby's simultaneous search for mendoza

[telesilla]

Below I suggested that Donna might be the WW's outsider, because I'm with you and am not sure Sam fits the bill. In fact with his youth and occasional bouts of endearing goofiness as well as his obvious intelligence, I can see something of a case for Sam sharing the role of "boy genius" with Charlie. Oh great, now I can imagine Toby or CJ saying "Sam Seaborn, boy genius" in a very sarcastic tone of voice.

[kangeiko]

Hee! That's just scary. :)

wingsmith and I had a very fun offline discussion about the peculiar case of the West Wing, whereby the possibility of 'age-ing up' the boy/fool character was brought up. This leaves Sam and Josh and Charlie in that position, with very few 'dashing men' and 'patriarchs' running about. This could be because the west wing is weighted upwards in terms of character age, and I'm having trouble reconciling them to the younger bits... hmmm.

[kangeiko]

Following on from our off-line discussion, I agree with you about the ambiguity re: sam's position and leo's. I don't see leo as the viewpoint simply because while he's in that long shot, he sets things up - as giles might do, for instance - from an expository perspective, but then leaves sam to run with it.

That said, I am stealing all your sorkin thoughts. so there.

[wingsmith]

Oh and Add charlie to the boy genius roll

here by way of metafandom

[telesilla]

What a fascinating post

Re: here by way of metafandom

[thelana]

Great point. Lots of genre shows have a tech guy or gal (4400, La Femme Nikita, Spooks - Ruth, Criminal Minds - Garcia, CSI- Greg). They are often played for cuteness and jovialness and not so infrequently get little side romances or crushes on main characters (Greg/Sara, Garcia/Morgan, Ruth/the boss, 4400 guy/Diana).

Re: here by way of metafandom

[kangeiko]

*nods*

Re: here by way of metafandom

[kangeiko]

I would say that you're leaving out the magician/miracle worker character, the practical person who gets things done.

*facepalm* I knew I was forgetting something! In my defence, I excluded both TOS and Alias from consideration, which would be where my primary source of miracle workers would come from. But I do see your point. One interestng thing is the frequent conflation of the magician with the boy genius - we have Ben Hawkins and Wesley Crusher, for example. But then we'd also have the older versions floating around - it does bring to mind the Greek deus ex machina, which shows have tried to eliminate but still occasionally fall back on. Q in TNG - in both the first and last episodes, for instance - has the air of both magician, trickster and giant re-set button about him.

I haven't watched enough of Rome to know if there is one there, although maybe Cesar's slave, Posca would fit the bill.As above, I'm thinking that once Rome gets properly underway, Octavian is going to turn into quite a miracle worker. Boy geniuses have that

[bluerosefairy]

Bless you for including Carnivale in that discourse. One of my very favorite shows ever, and so much fun to analyze.

[kangeiko]

I adore Carnivale! I haven't seen any analysis of it anywhere, though! Tell me there's a hidden community of metafandomers, frantically deconstructing it as we speak?? *hopeful face*

[bluerosefairy]

Oh good God, do I wish. I'm the only person I know who's even attempted it - I wrote an essay on Ben and Justin's Heroes' Journeys, ala Joseph Campbell as an offshoot of my junior thesis last year.

You know, there is a very simple solution to this upsetting lack of meta: start a community ourselves. I'd love to co-mod with you - I've read your stuff around fandom before, but for some strange reason, never chatted with you. Whaddaya say? I think we could take over change the world!

[kangeiko]

*bounce bounce* That would be so fun! Count me in!