Brian Michael Bendis & the debasement of Tigra: conscious or unsconscious misogyny?

[kali921]

This week continues to be emotionally mercurial, as the discussions of racial and cultural blind spots in fandom continue around LJ, JournalFen, and the larger blogsphere - I'm tempted to call this Jewgate 2007 - and I do have more to say about it, but today I need to write about something that's been on my mind for over a week

Comments

[goneformofman]

I don't like it, but I'm pretty sure it's not intended.

Not to say it's not there, but I think at times we do overreact. On the other hand, it's Bendis, Marvel's top guy, and this is a flagship title, not MAX, and in theory should be a book you could give to your kid.

Like I said, I don't like it, but it's probably not 'Oh let's be mean to wimmen' more, 'let's show The Hood is a complete bastard, worthy of the Kingpin's legacy'. You could replace Tigra with anyone, and the scene would still work.

I always feel a bit weird when saying stuff like that, since I do understand your, and others, point.

[shanejayell]

The problem is, it shouldn't be "any character." This is SO far OOC it's hilariously bad. Literally.

[goneformofman]

My problem is that The Hood was a bad guy, but still very much the guy you rooted for in his mini, and here's it's impossible.

As for Tigra, I don't really know the character, so I don't know how OOC it is. Hopefully a lot, since she appeared to be very much not cool in NA #35, or at least the scans I've seen.

[kali921]

And there are plenty of links above to show you just how confident and self-assured she is, not this Screaming Woman Trope that Bendis reduced her to.

[ashen_key]

And so I go from the world of Greek myths, where all the girls are raped (okay, slight exageration. SLIGHT) and my own Medusa in my head was raped and THEN killed while she was sleep, to this.

Storytelling doesn't seem to have improved much in the last couple of thousand years, has it?

And mostly this comment is just me having to read too much violence recently, and no, I don't know the character as I'm not a comic-girl, but...Jesus. That self-assured woman would not go to whimpering. Fighting back and being beaten down, yes, I can see.

Not freezing beforehand.

[kali921]

Exactamundo.

Exactly.

Spot on.

Greer would go down fighting tooth, claw, and punch that can puncture an eight inch steel wall.

[ashen_key]

Of course, Medusa in my head says, more than a little bitter, that doesn't always help, but...

Gah.

Men and their violence kink! *throws up hands in disgust*

[atomic_robo]

Not to be a huckster, but you should probably start reading Atomic Robo (our first issue hit the stands last week, yay). We have a bunch of rules about our series, among them: no objectification of women and no rape.

We don't do this as some kind of weirdo denial that these things happen in the real world. Obviously they do. We do this because just as we were tired of every robot character being Data or Bender, we were tired of every female character being Ms. Cheesecake or Rapegirl. It's classic pulp Action Science Adventure. The people with whom Robo interacts are either mooks or the top 1% of the top 1% in their field, and it makes no sense for the world's foremost FTL theorist -- man or woman -- to look, dress, or pose like a model (with the camera pointed forever at her ass

SOLD!

[kali921]

My one regret is that we actually have very little opportunity to showcase this in the first mini-series because it takes place in a '30s Himalayan Nazi base, the Nevada desert, the Egyptian desert, NASA in the '70s, Mars, and an abandoned 19th century underground supervillain complex. These places aren't exactly known to have women just hanging around.

STOP RIGHT THERE. SOLD!

Thank you for your comment. Honestly, this sounds so cliched, but it's people like you that give me faith that the industry progresses. While it's heartbreaking to think that Misty Knight got better writing ten years, twenty years, and THIRTY years ago than she gets from Matt Fraction and Ed Brubaker, we have the Ruckas and Simones (I have my problems with Gail Simone, but she sure ain't writing weak sisters) and you(s) of the world that put a smile on my face.

[ext_59120]

I'll watch Kali's take on it and see how it goes. Because I've had it up to here and then some. I'm reaching the point where the mention of superhero comics makes me feel like to cry.

Given that your backdrops are the 1930's or deserts etc - is there any chance that any of those secondary characters will be people of colour who aren't the bad guys?

[kali921]

You tell 'em! Why can't there be a 1930's pulp-style story with someone like Impala or Silverclaw kicking righteous ass for justice?

After this week of Tigra and Barda possibly getting refrigerated and BY SHIVA'S TOPKNOT, DC and Marvel, what the hell kind of "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, GIRLS" crack are they ON?

[dharmapunk]

Oh I'm sure Bendis has an really good explanation about why he decided to have things go down that way. I mean she was probably just menstruating or experiancing some feelings or some other girl stuff. I mean women, am I right guys? Am I right? Hahahahah!

...Sigh

[kali921]

In my dream world, if Bendis uses the "Auntie Flo was visiting" excuse, the floodgates are unleashed, with zillions of fangirls and fanboys pointing out that if he's REALLY going to use that stereotype, he might want to remember that the stereotype is about women being more aggressive when they're in the unholy vice grip of PMS.

[dharmapunk]

"Auntie Flo," "Floodgates," heh.

It's the same thing a lot of stupid writers do when they have the ability to basically grab and write whatever characters they want. Instead of writing for a character, he's writing an established character into his story, just using her as a plot point. Doesn't really matter who she is, as long as we know who she is, like her more than we hate her, and will be upset that she's getting brutalized. Then instead of bringing us into this character's personal terror, he just writes up some masterbatory scene where we're basically acting like jigsaw and watching this woman get beaten, and there's no good reason for it to be happening other than the fact that Bendis decided it was going to.

[ajpursell]

I can get the need to "destroy" a character to serve a plot that I'm sure will make (attempt to make?) sense when it's read in the trade, hopefully when Tigra returns an assbeating to the new shoehorned Joker of the MarvelU but this fails at it. It easily could have been any of the male second stringers. It could have been with a villain that's more established to be a terrifying bad ass.

I think the desired reaction was to make people think the Hood was a credible threat in the Marvel U and to make people feel worried for Tigra's plight. But yeah, he just failed miserably at this.

Plus, I'm really hating the Sentry-style just slamming in a new character and expecting everyone to go "oh, yeah, that could happen."

[kali921]

Plus, I'm really hating the Sentry-style just slamming in a new character and expecting everyone to go "oh, yeah, that could happen."

YES! Brubaker has this Sentry Syndrome too, of course. Vulcan. Korvus. Bucky (okay, he's not new, but his death not taking is new). Sin. Etc.